Digging this one back up because Cecil knocked it outta the park with this article.
What Is Effective In Self-Defense? (Part 1) – Cecil Burch
It’s not you being told this super deadly technique worked for commandos behind enemy lines in Nazi Germany, or your master’s master’s master in Japan killed people with it; you can’t test that yourself. With combat sports, I know that the stuff will work. You can’t fool somebody.
Think for yourself. Question authority.
I disagree with his premise about a few things, but it is a good article.
“One thing about combat sports versus other martial arts I have found is that the more an instructor talks about maiming or doing extreme physical damage to someone, and the more graphic it is, then probably the more unstable they are mentally.
Perhaps but I know some folks who have exceptional high jobs who talk like that and the .gov shrinks have not booted them yet
Combat Sports will work for 98% of the bad guys - the 2%er column does not care about pain, or non deadly damage - where certain elements have found the MMA/Cbt Sport package has failed is when pain compliance and even bone and joint destruction have not neutralized the target. In that way its more a failing of mental conditioning, than the program itself - in that one needs to be able to move back and forth from lethal to non-lethal forces easily as required.
I really want to train with Craig as I hear really good things about his program.
Kevin S. Boland
Director of R&D
Law Tactical LLC
www.lawtactical.com
kevin@lawtactical.com
407-451-4544
Well, the more I train, the more I think that a choke is the best way to absolutely and totally bring down a really tough aggressor. Punches, kicks, and bone breaks and locks are effective so long as the other guy cannot take the pain, and most guys can't. But an effective choke puts the guy in LaLa land whether or not he wants to go there.
But at that point, I can also just attain a better position of dominance and get to a weapon...because if I just cracked a joint and he's still that much of a threat, then I must either run or apply lethal force.
It's been discussed before but using MMA as. Test bed for what works and doesn't shows that chokes trump all other submissions. They don't have a choice if you remove their air supply. A broken arm on them certainly helps your case but doesn't necessarily prevent them from being a problem. The UFC isn't da streetz but I'm sure at the money those guys are making if there was something better it would be used.Originally Posted by 45dotACP
Control and positional dominance affords many opportunities for weapons, escapes, effective strikes, etc.
Has anyone ever been able to strike effectively from a position of disadvantage in any of the combat sports? Answer is probably no. So if a guy who trains to fight as his job, daily, doesn't think it's worth it there is no chance in hell an engineer who doesn't train to strike will land a strike worth talking about.
Think for yourself. Question authority.
I'd argue as I said in PM, that in those fights a strike cannot be done with a knife, gun etc...
In a no holds barred fight on "the street" (sorry for terminology but best I can do) there really are no rules, other than what the opponents set for themselves.
The mistake is missing that an opponent may use a blade or gun on you if they have the tool and mindset when you are not wired for it and instead trying to control the fight.
Add a shock knife and a sim gun and the results skew -- same with other tools available that are not allowed in a typical dojo.
Kevin S. Boland
Director of R&D
Law Tactical LLC
www.lawtactical.com
kevin@lawtactical.com
407-451-4544
Excuse my naivety but I thought the idea of a choke was blood supply as compared to airways - the former is much faster. In my youth, when the instructor did that, it was bye bye very quickly. Airways might give an opponent more than ample time to take a knife to your limbs or whatever. Or so I was taught. I am getting a touch old for such - sigh.
Last edited by Glenn E. Meyer; 09-02-2014 at 02:36 PM.
If you look at the UFC's stats, most fights go the distance. Of those that result in a finish, KO's and TKO's almost double submissions. Submissions are almost evenly divided between chokes and armbars/joint locks. Now, there are a lot of factors that limit how much we generalize these stats to the streets, but I think that it is safe to say that those who neglect their striking do so at there peril. By striking I mean boxing or some version such as Muay Thai where you are taught crisp techniques and practice with a sparring partner who may punch you in the face - really hard. A famous boxer turned cannibal once said, "Everbody has a plan until they get punched in the face."
There is no secret squirrel, five fingers of death, Bloodsport Dim Mak death touch technique that you are going to learn from any ex-mil, government contractor, Zumba instructor that replaces you suffering into wisdom in the ring and on the mat.
Last edited by Sensei; 09-02-2014 at 02:27 PM.
I like my rifles like my women - short, light, fast, brown, and suppressed.
Blood, correct. I have been stuck discussing the choking incident recently where breathing was in question.
Think for yourself. Question authority.
There are two broad categories of choke: blood and airway. Blood chokes use a combination of reduced blood delivery to and venous return from the brain to incapacitate the opponent. Examples are the properly applied rear naked choke and triangle choke (the opponents own shoulder providing half of the occlusive force).
Some so called short chokes (clasped hands driving the distal radius into the carotid triangle or trachea) and a few lapel chokes have an airway component that often becomes a pain compliance submission.
I suppose that a 3rd category is the neck crank that is seen with improperly applied guillotine, arm triangles, north-south choke, etc.
Last edited by Sensei; 09-02-2014 at 02:48 PM.
I like my rifles like my women - short, light, fast, brown, and suppressed.
Cecil's "Immediate Action Jiu Jitsu" and "Immediate Action Pugilistics" material is far from "typical dojo" or straight BJJ/MMA material, same with Craigs ECQC material.
Both are based on fighting in a weapons based environment with unequal initiative, ie: you're behind the curve and the other guy is armed.
Both also utilize actively resisting "armed" (training blades/sims guns) opponents during the coursework.
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