I realize we all view stuff like this through our own lens of experience but "interesting" wasn't a word that immediately came to mind after watching that nonsense.
I realize we all view stuff like this through our own lens of experience but "interesting" wasn't a word that immediately came to mind after watching that nonsense.
The path of least resistance will seldom get you where you need to be.
I was being niceOriginally Posted by 41magfan
Now that we are done with the niceties, let's here some more intelligence for the goobers such as myself
Fairness leads to extinction much faster than harsh parameters.
Some random thoughts that immediately come to mind:
This is really just a hostage situation, nothing more and nothing less until you know more about his motives.
Hostage situations are resolved successfully all the time so don’t try and reinvent the wheel.
Most hostage situations end well as long as someone doesn’t do something stupid or try something outside their skill set.
Closing the distance of engagement generally benefits the unskilled. You’re the one that’s supposed to be skilled so if you’re going to engage him do it outside of his probable comfort zone.
If you as the sole rescuer are put out of action, who’s going to do the rescuing?
Delay, delay, delay …. generally speaking, the longer the standoff goes the more likely it is others will get involved and you won't bear the burden of pulling something off by yourself.
Every minute you delay the bad guy works to your advantage from a psychological standpoint. He likely just wanted to get in and out and now you’ve screwed that up by confronting him. Now all he will generally want to do is get away so convince him that "option" is available if he releases the hostage.
With the above mentioned factors in mind, if I was going to engage the guy with gunfire I would do it without warning from the opened doorway from a supported shooting position. Otherwise, if he moves, you’ll be forced to move with him using cover as best you can. If he’s slack enough for his OODA Loop to come unwound by advancing on him, you’d be better off waiting for another distraction to offer an opportunity to engage him.
The overwhelming majority of critical incidents like this are handled by isolating and containing the bad guy(s) until surrender or elimination can take place. Above all else, don't let the thing go mobile.
Last edited by 41magfan; 07-15-2014 at 10:09 PM.
The path of least resistance will seldom get you where you need to be.
That's putting it mildly.I was being nice
I can honestly say I'm not interested in the video's macho "imaSEAL" posturing, however it did present me with an interesting shooting problem to solve. My first thought when watching the video was "that's not much more than 7-10 yards, the BG is moving really slow and exposing his head and upper chest, I take that shot 100% of the time."
I didn't think about the possibility of the glass deflecting my bullet. That makes it more interesting. Since I don't have kids, there's not emotional "gotcha" - it's an interesting shooting problem, where the right marksmanship solution and the "right" tactical solution may not be the same thing.
This really hits home with me as I have a 1 year old just starting to run around at home. This presented scenario freaks me right out so I am glad to see the video and discussion to get me thinking about what I would do. Here are a couple of my thoughts.
I thought it was interesting that Chad shot at the ground near the kidnapper's feet. I immediately thought that presented a ricochet hazard to my child and dismissed it. But then I remembered watching a video just recently demonstrating how bullets ricochet parallel to a flat surface instead of ricocheting at the same angle they were shot at. This is all on a smooth hard surface like concrete. So maybe this is not that bad of an idea and I am sure it would disorient the kidnapper. Would it disorient him enough that he would flub and allow me to close the distance without shooting me or my child? I would guess that if I started shooting, the BG would also start pulling the trigger. Hopefully he would be disoriented enough to not hit me or my child.
I would not want to lose sight of my child so I would definitely rush the BG. See how Chad did not run straight at him but ran across the BG's line of sight. That would make it very difficult for the BG to hit him since he is already wrestling with a hostage and now trying to shoot a moving target from the hip.
I do not think it is realistic to think that an AR could be used to solve this scenario unless you always carry your AR around your home or have one sitting right by your patio door. You should be carrying your pistol around at all times.
This is definitely a scenario that I am going to simulate on the range.
This article would seem to indicate that even car glass doesn't deflect things much, if at all.
Plus, it's an interesting read all over.
"You're only young once, but you can be immature forever" Ogden Nash
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Pogo
I'm not sure where you got that idea from?
Glass deflection for vehicle windshields is huge, from the AARs I've read. Not so sure about a house glass window, where the bullet's path would probably be normal to the glass pane, but I'd certainly err on the side of caution and anticipate deflection.
Cr@p! Sorry, reading comprehension fail..... <I hate Fridays, mainly because they aren't Saturday yet, and my brain is already full>
"You're only young once, but you can be immature forever" Ogden Nash
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Pogo
Step 1: Get that plate carrier on!
Step 2: Run directly at the guy with the gun!
Step 3: Don't shoot him! But definitely believe that you shooting repeatedly at his feet will de-escalate!
But in all honesty, I think a hostage taker dragging a kicking and screaming child might be difficult enough that if I take my time to open the door and guarantee no deflection, the 10 yard (tops) headshot might not be such a bad option. I don't know the motivations or belief system of all criminals, but I've gotta think that most would be more willing to use a gun on me than my child, meaning the gun is away from my kid. That means I'm just shooting at a No-shoot partial. It just shoots back. Good thing I remembered that plate carrier!
If he tries to run with my kid, I'm fairly confident I'm in good enough shape to close the distance. At some point, he'd gonna slow down. He's carrying at least 40 lbs of deadweight that's kicking, screaming and crying. I will be faster, unless he's in phenomonal shape.
This may also be one of those situations where a laser helps. The intimidation factor could be a thing. If not, just shine it in his eyeballs and take the shot.
Just snowballing. But I'd probably be more inclined to do some killing over somebody trying to take my kid than some punk sticking up the local stop n rob.
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