Shotguns -- slugs versus buckshot considerations

[GJM]

I thought I would split this off from the 1301 thread, and it has the possibility for interesting conversation.

I started down the traditional shotgun path -- classes with the "masters" then, Awerbuck, Jeans, Cain, C Smith plus others. Did a lot of patterning of different buck through different barrels.

With the right barrel, and the right load, at the right distance, buckshot is near magical. At the wrong distance, with the wrong barrel and wrong buckshot load, is is really bad. That got me to slugs, where I am now.

Discuss?

[nycnoob]

I have had classes with Awerbuck and others, I never actually understood the who "patterning" thing.

The patterns appeared to me to be very unstable and nothing I could rely on in a fight. If I am responsible for all the shot out my muzzle then taping little pictures of patterns for each load to the buttstock will not help me.

I always thought pump shotgun was a "fun" gun to take a class with, though I am not sure why that is.

[Mike Pipes]

Patterned Federal Flight Control out of a cyl.bore PD 870 and Benelli M1. At 10yrds it was a 2 1/2 in hole and at 15yrds it strung the pattern to the right and was 5in. Slug at 50yrds would go into 4in..........................CYA

[Jeep]

I thought I would split this off from the 1301 thread, and it has the possibility for interesting conversation.

I started down the traditional shotgun path -- classes with the "masters" then, Awerbuck, Jeans, Cain, C Smith plus others. Did a lot of patterning of different buck through different barrels.

With the right barrel, and the right load, at the right distance, buckshot is near magical. At the wrong distance, with the wrong barrel and wrong buckshot load, is is really bad. That got me to slugs, where I am now.

Discuss?

GJM: Doesn't a lot depend on your situation? If you keep a shotgun for home defense you can probably anticipate shooting a short range--the near magical range for buckshot. If you are wondering in the Alaskan woods with a shotgun to ward off bears you are going to want slugs. Other situations might call for a mixture of the two, or might start off with something like #4 shot (which would be good for wild dogs and the like).

[JAD]

I don't really believe in overpenetration with handgun rounds, but that logic finds its limit with a slug. If I'm running a slug, I have to be really, really sure of what it's going to go into after it exits the target. That's why they're always a select at best and in my HD application left out of the mix. Nothing I'd have to shoot in an HD scenario is likely to get out of range of a 5" pattern. If it was I'd prefer an AR.

[nycnoob]

I don't really believe in over penetration with handgun rounds . . .

Have you seen some data which caused this view?


I thought over penetration was a risk with all weapons and living in a communist state I do worry about malicious prosecution.

[JAD]

Have you seen some data which caused this view?


I thought over penetration was a risk with all weapons and living in a communist state I do worry about malicious prosecution.

I might move if I felt that way strongly enough. As I don't, I limit the things I worry about.

I value sufficient penetration more than the possibility of mortal harm coming to someone behind my target, with handguns. My data set for 'sufficient' is that on three of my friends, I've measured way more than 14" of meat between the surface of their skin and their spine. If I'm so good that day that I land a spinal shot, I'll be damned if the FBI is going to tell me I can't hit it.

[nycnoob]

Patterned Federal Flight Control . . .

And I do not understand why people like this Flight Control Wad technology in the special ammo box.

The original idea was a choke The Wad Wizard Shotgun Choke System it works as advertised and if you use it all your shot is "flight controlled".
Which goes to show that the issue with patterning is the wad and hot gasses blowing through your pattern. I would rather have a flight controlled barrel then buy some flight controlled ammo.

[GJM]

GJM: Doesn't a lot depend on your situation? If you keep a shotgun for home defense you can probably anticipate shooting a short range--the near magical range for buckshot. If you are wondering in the Alaskan woods with a shotgun to ward off bears you are going to want slugs. Other situations might call for a mixture of the two, or might start off with something like #4 shot (which would be good for wild dogs and the like).

I think situation does matter. Most places in the lower 48, I load buck inside the house.

Bill Jeans of Morrigan Consulting sent me the reference to the police officer killed by a stray pellet of buck fired by a fellow officer. Will try to post that later, by screen-shotting and photobucket'ng it.

I agree slugs, especially Brenneke slugs, penetrate a bunch. The tradeoff is being responsible for one slug versus 8 or 9 balls, each capable of killing someone.

[Unobtanium]

I might move if I felt that way strongly enough. As I don't, I limit the things I worry about.

I value sufficient penetration more than the possibility of mortal harm coming to someone behind my target, with handguns. My data set for 'sufficient' is that on three of my friends, I've measured 24" of meat between the surface of their skin and their spine. If I'm so good that day that I land a spinal shot, I'll be damned if the FBI is going to tell me I can't hit it.

How? I have seen some BIG guys in my gym, and they do not have anywhere near 2 feet of chest-depth. By big, I mean 2200# leg-press, 6'4 275# roided out of their minds big.