CCW reciprocity is a goat rodeo

[TheTrevor]

Around the time of the winter holidays, the extended family was making plans for the big summer vacation get-together. A number of states were floated as possibilities. Of those, I expressed a preference for PA as it honored my non-res CCW permits and, relatively speaking, was the most gun-friendly. I got my way, and as a result that's where I'll be the week of the 4th.

Fast forward to this week and I'm going through my pre-travel checklist, which includes verifying laws and regulations in states where I'll be traveling. I've long since known that MD is actively hostile to PoTG, but I was pretty steamed to find that PA has not only decided to stop accepting non-res permits from FL, but has revoked reciprocity with UT as of early May 2014. This is especially odious because a very large number of people live in states where obtaining a CCW permit is effectively impossible, and the non-res permits with reciprocity enabled us to legally go armed while traveling in Free America.

I realize I'm about the millionth person to say so, but this is exactly why some matters need to be federally regulated. The current system, which basically relies on the whims of 50 individual attorneys general, is an unpredictable Charlie Foxtrot that's likely to result in folks getting arrested because the rules changed when someone (the AG) decided they wanted to change them.

[41magfan]

I sense the frustration, but are you certain you want the knuckleheads that gave us the National Firearms Act, the Gun Control Act and the Assault Weapons Ban unilateral control of concealed carry? I find the prospect of such a thing a bit disconcerting, personally.

[PPGMD]

I sense the frustration, but are you certain you want the knuckleheads that gave us the National Firearms Act, the Gun Control Act and the Assault Weapons Ban unilateral control of concealed carry? I find the prospect of such a thing a bit disconcerting, personally.

Most concealed carry reciprocity laws that have been written are pretty simple.

Typically at most they specify that you have a permit from your state (based on your state issued ID), and the state you are traveling to allows concealed carry, you can concealed carry.

[RevolverRob]

One thing that I am concerned about with respect to national reciprocity is this - If we get it, once we have it, we will never get constitutional carry recognized as a concept. We may never get constitutional carry recognized and that seems likely to be the reality as of late, but I know we won't get it once national reciprocity exists. Right now I personally sit on the fence as to whether I want to push for national reciprocity or constitutional carry. The later seems far more important if we do not strike down onerous may-issue laws and replace them with enforced shall-issue laws. The most recent ruling in California is obviously going to come into play here. If it stands and may-issue is struck down in the other places and replaced with shall-issue, you'll find me on the side of national reciprocity. Until then, I think it's more important to make sure everyone has the right to carry in their in home state, before we worry too much about national reciprocity.

-Rob

[Totem Polar]

Oh man, have I been observing this can of worms in action over the last couple of years while watching the sausage-making session that was the Idaho "enhanced permit". The basic issues (in addition to the very simple "free" vs. "slave" state mentalities in 50 legislatures) revolve around training requirements and age. Idaho now has a two-tiered system, regular and enhanced, that are differentiated by tiers of training and the fact that the enhanced permit is limited to 21 and above to better fall into line with as many states as possible. Talk about a goat kitten.

Upshot is; it's now a toss-up for WA residents as to which is better: Utah or ID enhanced. The vast majority of the 30+ states for each overlap; it's down to which southwestern state you're most likely to drive through in the next 5 years; IDen adds NV and NM. Of course, Oregon and Colorado both tell everyone to pound sand, so those two, along with MN and IL are the only thing preventing coast-to-coast barreling along in the sports car with "fluffy, the pet G17" along for the ride. I agree with the basic OP premise: some number of years ago, I felt like I had a basic working knowledge of the rules. At this point it's more like work staying on top of the changes. I vote that we pressure everyone to A) stay exactly the same as they are now (with possible exception of IL) and B) add the ID enhanced idea (21+, training and qual on record) to the mix for USA carry reciprocity. Don't like the Feds butting in? Fine, stay with what ya got, and keep vacation travel in check. Already have 200 hours of certs from a buncha skoolz and middle age bulge? Great, get an enhanced card that will let you pack anywhere in the free CONUS, and bone up on where you can have a beer and see a movie, and where you cannot.

[JodyH]

I'd go for national reciprocity or even a federal ccw permit if it did away with the vast majority of prohibited places (as in if a LEO can carry there, I can carry there).
Dream a little dream.

[LOKNLOD]

I'd go for national reciprocity or even a federal ccw permit if it did away with the vast majority of prohibited places (as in if a LEO can carry there, I can carry there).
Dream a little dream.

Fed level CCW clearance should make NFA process as seamless as a buying anything else, too. Walk in, walk out.

If we're dreaming...

[cclaxton]

First of all on Maryland: It specifically addresses the transportation and use of handguns for practice and for sporting purposes. You can transport as in Title 18 and shoot any handgun match at any legal gun range in Maryland using any mags you have. Maryland residents do have restrictions, but non-residents do not. Note that banned assault rifles do NOT fall under the practice and sporting purposes. Please see other postings here if you want to know about assault rifles.

I am an advocate for Federal Concealed Carry set up similar to, and possibly operated by, the LEOSA system. Obviously the pre-qualifications would all be different. Asking for national reciprocity is a legal nightmare subject to every State, and potentially cities and counties suing the Federal Gov't. But if Congress passes and the President signs a law that establishes a National Concealed Carry License, I would think that would be on solid ground. Contrary to the fright-night scenarios people throw around, if the law is crafted properly this would fix the nightmare of trying to travel with your handgun for personal safety and enable us to carry nationwide. Some facilities are going to ban carrying: Federal security facilities, Town Halls, etc.

But this would make our lives so much easier and less risky when travelling with a handgun.

As for the Constitutional Right to Conceal Carry...that is a fantasy. The Supreme Court has already given their intention on this when it ruled on Heller. It will NEVER happen. A background check and a judicial review and a picture ID and a qualification/certification and agreeing to abide by the buildings/properties that I would be restricted from CC would be fantastic solution for me. They could also mandate that a personal firearm may be locked in your vehicle while on personal property.

if they solve those two problems, I am willing to subject myself to more scrutiny.
Cody

[TheTrevor]

Yes. Well. My destination is not MD. I am flying into BWI, overnighting nearby, then beating feet for the PA border at first light. The entirety of my interest in MD, having reviewed state gun regs, consists of minimizing my time in/near Baltimore and getting safely to the PA border without having a "Port Authority" incident of some sort.

You could always open carry.

Heh. In desperation, I actually looked into whether this was an option in PA considering I'd be spending my whole visit outside of major metro areas. Yeah, not so much... PA is "gun friendly" by east coast standards, but nevertheless appears to be tightly locked down on anything handgun related. I suppose it was too much to hope that PA allowed unlicensed open carry out in the countryside. (We shall leave aside the question of whether OC would be socially acceptable with the extended family...)

Interestingly, it does appear that there's a "CCW in cars" exemption to the carry laws:

However, no license is required:
...
(6) while carrying a firearm in any vehicle when the person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the U.S. or any other state;

A plain reading of this says that any valid CCW license, resident or non-res, should qualify me. I'm suspicious, though, that there may be creative interpretations of the statute which make this a potential trap. Worse, it only seems to be useful for driving from temporary domicile to shooting range (at best) because getting out of the car with a loaded gun holstered would appear to be an immediate violation of the carry laws. Heck, I'm not even sure a traveler could legally stop to refuel their vehicle while armed.

As I said, it's a charlie foxtrot goat rodeo.

[DocGKR]

Ideally CCW licenses should be exactly the same as driver's licenses; if you have a valid license in one state, it allows you to drive/CCW in any other state.