Steel Targets, Safe Distance?

[JWinTN]

As mentioned, properly designed mounting setups that keep the target face angled down are critical.

I was in a Spaulding class a couple of months ago, and we were shooting his steel targets. I don't know who manufactured them, but they were on 2x4s and the face of the target was angled down. We started out shooting them, straight on, at seven yards and had to step back to ten because we were getting peppered by spall. I don't know if it was from the target face or the base. We only fired a couple of volleys before we stepped back. I have a feeling that one shooter and one target presents less of a problem than a number of people and targets on a line.

I prefer to be at least ten yards away if I can help it. Our local matches don't allow for shooting steel any closer than 10 yards, and even then I have seen people cut by fragments coming back. Once, a bullet fired at steel in another bay came plummeting from the sky, seemingly straight down, and hit me on my trapezius, leaving a knot that lasted a few days. I'm glad it didn't make it to my noggin.

[ragnar_d]

Not much to add, but I agree with all of F2S's points. Also, the magic number for USPSA is 23 feet for pistols (something that was hit pretty hard at my RO class):
Match Disqualification – Unsafe Gun Handling
10.5.17 - A shot fired at a metal target from a distance of less than 23 feet, measured from the face of the target to the nearest part of the competitor’s body in contact with the ground (see Rule 2.1.3).
http://www.uspsa.org/document_librar...un%20Rules.pdf

Think 25 yards (ish, maybe?) is the closest I've shot steel with a rifle . . . it was at a USCA match at the VCGHC and the thought of folks whinging M855 or 7.62 wolf projectiles that close had me a bit concerned.

[TheTrevor]

25 yards is FAR too close to shoot steel with a rifle, IMHO. 50yd is questionable but might be ok with the right targets, stands, and range setup. 75yd is the minimum at which I'm comfortable shooting steel with 5.56/5.45.

[SecondsCount]

I was in a Spaulding class a couple of months ago, and we were shooting his steel targets. I don't know who manufactured them, but they were on 2x4s and the face of the target was angled down. We started out shooting them, straight on, at seven yards and had to step back to ten because we were getting peppered by spall. I don't know if it was from the target face or the base. We only fired a couple of volleys before we stepped back. I have a feeling that one shooter and one target presents less of a problem than a number of people and targets on a line.

I have a similar set and at 21 feet I will get the occasional fragment back when shooting it with service calibers. There isn't enough velocity in the fragments to do anything, just enough to feel like sand in a windstorm, maybe a little stinging.

Rifle, especially high velocity 223, can be very dangerous at close range. I have seen ricochets at 30 yards that had enough energy to penetrate clothing and draw blood.

[Failure2Stop]

25 yards is FAR too close to shoot steel with a rifle, IMHO. 50yd is questionable but might be ok with the right targets, stands, and range setup. 75yd is the minimum at which I'm comfortable shooting steel with 5.56/5.45.

The set-up needs to be smart to minimize base deflection and bouncing of M855 penetrators, but 25 is ok if your target will take it.

Please remember the key parts of this:
At least 3/8 AR500
No pits on the face of the steel deeper than 1/16 inch.
Attachment bolts need to have as flat of a dome on the impact side as possible.
Any hard angle on the face of the steel will push frag back at the shooting line.
Sandbags on the base will help keep the base from tipping and will deaden frag bounce.
Spall will extend 30 degrees off of the face of the plate and travel for around 100 meters in all directions (upright), virtually zero upward spall if a forward lean is used (degree sensitive).
Pistol projectiles tend to bounce more and produce larger pieces of frag than rifle, as rifle bullets at rifle speeds tend to vaporize more than splash, and are generally smaller where it matters.

Velocity kills steel. Most of the aversion to close range rifle (25-100 meters) is that it tears up the steel. Really there are pretty few decent drills that call for steel at closer than 50, so much of this is academic. I view 25 as the closest that I am willing to have students shoot on, and that is single shooter with observers back at 50.

[John Hearne]

Target design makes a huge difference. The MGM BC Target is a rifle target that you can shoot at 15 yards.

http://mgmtargets.com/tactical-targe...base?cPath=11&

[dbateman]

Putting sandbags, hay bales, rubber matting, etc in the spall line does a lot to keep nasty shit from coming back at the shooter.
Having the face of the target canted downward by about 30 degrees does a lot to keep low velocity rounds from bouncing back at the shooter.
Upright targets are the only ones that I have ever seen spit a flattened projectile back.

Steel is no joke.

I do pretty much what F2S does by the sound of it.

Typically when I shoot steel with a handgun it is a min of 7yds with a .223 or .308 I try and keep it at a min of 100yds but have shoot closer with spall guards setup.
For hi powered rifles (338LM and up) I like to keep the steel a min of 500yds.

All my steel is 1/2" AR500 I cant stress enough how important it is to use the correct steel when making targets.

[Little Creek]

It depends. Action Target systems suggest their AR500 targets be shot no closer than 10 yards with handguns and no closer than 100 yards with rifles that have a muzzle velocity of less than 3000 fps. I have seen published drills with action target systems as close as 7 yards.

The KEY is getting quality targets from a company that goes to great lengths to eliminate splashback. Once "pistol", AR500 targets, have been pock marked or penetrated by rifle fire, they are no longer safe to shoot at 10 yards with a pistol.

[Chuck Whitlock]

IIRC, at FLETC steel targets are only shot with frangible ammo. Of course, then you get into things like breachface erosion and all.

[RJ]

I did a search to find this thread for this question.

New to shooting, and I'm going to my first Steel Challenge match next month.

For use in my VP9, what is the recomendation for type of ammo to use to minimize spall?

Does weight (115, 124, 147) make a difference?

FMJ? TMJ?

I need approximately 200 rounds, so I'm going to put in a bulk order instead of buying locally. Thanks in advance. Rich