CCW permit renewal

[Stengun]

Howdy Everybody,

There isn't a CCW section so I'll post this here.

Yesterday I had to requalify the shooting portion for my CCW permit so I went to an indoor range called On Target owned by Jan Morgan. Here's a link:

http://ontargetfr.com

I used my Glock 35 .40S&W:



Target was placed 7 yards away.



I grabbed a handfull of bullets and loaded 11 rounds into the mag and started blasting away. After the eighth shot she said I could stop "showing off". So I holstered my G35. After a couple of secs I decided to finish off the other three rounds so a did a strong hand only quick draw and fired the last three rounds. They are the three in kind of a triangle group that's a little low.



I'll mail the paperwork today and I'll be good for another 5 years.

Paul

[Adam]

What is the shooting requirement for qualification and requalification?

[Stengun]

Howdy,

You basically just have to hit the paper without shooting yourself or anyone else.

I've been to numerous CCW classes and what's scary is the number of people that want a CCW permit and do not know how to load their own gun, especially when it's a 5-shot .38 stub nose.

Paul

[Lomshek]

Howdy,

You basically just have to hit the paper without shooting yourself or anyone else.

I've been to numerous CCW classes and
what's scary is the number of people that want a CCW permit and do not know how to load their own gun,
especially when it's a 5-shot .38 stub nose.

Paul

I equate that to the number of people who drive with no idea how to do anything to their car but drive and gas it up. Plenty couldn't locate a spark plug if you asked them.

Not who I want making hostage saving headshots to rescue me but still better than a disarmed populace.

[abu fitna]

I have gone back and forth over this. In the end, I am fine with the barest minimum of qualification standards for the permit itself - sufficient to demonstrate safety, and a sense of the responsibility that comes with carrying arms. This comes alongside the recognition that this initial qual is itself merely the first step, and that it is then incumbent upon the individual to pursue further training and certification at their own pace, on their own dime. I advocate for individuals keeping training records, essentially to the same standards one expects of an organized element. Some argue that this if nothing else is for liability purposes, but I also strongly believe that there is a personal, moral imperative that demands one maintain skill at arms when one is carrying such arms.

[Salamander]

The requirements are generally a little tougher in California, although the counties and the instructors do get a fair amount of flexibility in how they apply the state-level requirements. We must qualify every two years with each gun listed on our permit, and at least in this county the initial qual is 50 rounds, 25 for re-quals.

The first time I did the training, I had what turned out to be a fairly middle of the road instructor, a mix of distances out to 15 yards, enough variety to keep it interesting... some SHO/WHO and a couple of close-up two and three shot rapid sequences. I didn't get any real surprises til I added a gun and for convenience did it at one of the local ranges. They handed me a B-27, said put 45 out of 50 inside the silhouette, and bring it back when you're done. He didn't even watch.

My last renewal was with the guy with the toughest rep in the region. He does everything from the holster (only local guy who does quals that way, as far as I know), everything controlled cadence firing but fairly quick, Most of it at 10 yards but some at 7 and 15, everything in -0 or -1 on an IDPA target, including two sets in the head box. Unlike the other guys he doesn't say in advance what the sequence will be, he calls each one out at the beginning of the set so we had about 5 seconds max to think about it. Need 95% to pass. He does run live fire all morning as part of the training then does the quals after lunch, so everyone gets some practice.

I did the entire 12-hour course with the most recent guy even though I'm required to do only four hours (legal refresher + live fire quals) for a renewal, on the logic that one can never have too much training, and shot 100% with all three pistols. He was impressed enough that he sponsored me as a member at the toughest to get into of the local rifle ranges. I went back to him later to take my NRA RSO class.

Ironically, even with most local instructors offering fairly easy classes and quals, I've only seen one guy fail... that guy had multiple stoppages and malfunctions including a squib in a series of cheap Saturday night specials, and was a constant danger to himself and everyone around him. He was asked to leave after a short while.

I agree with the comment above though, I'd rather have folks legally armed and with a basic level of training. We spend lots of time at the range helping the ones who care work to get better.

[Stengun]

Howdy,

Being gun nuts we sometimes forget that most people aren't. Even most of the Pro-gun crowd aren't gun people and know very little about guns.

I live in rural Arkansas where most country folks own guns and hunt but aren't really gun people other than their deer rifle and shotgun. I work in a manufacturing plant with about 150 men total and about 130 hunt, 25ish have their CCW permit but only two of us actually carry more than once a month.

Even though I'm against any form of gun control, I feel if you are going to carry, you need to be able to safely handle your firearm.

I'll use this for an example:

I work in maintenance and one of my co-workers who has been doing maintenance for over 30 years was use a cutting torch overhead without any protective equipment, and was wearing a sleeveless t-shirt. No gloves or goggles, just pair of clear safety glasses.

Yep, he burnt himself on the arm with molten metal from the torch. 15 minutes later he went back to cutting overhead, still without any PPE, and burnt himself again.

Two days later the same idiot was using a stick welder without any PPE and wearing a sleeveless t-shirt and you guessed it, he burnt himself again.

That was two years ago. Today, the same idiot burnt himself again using a stick welder while wearing a sleeveless t-shirt.

My question is: Would you want this idiot running around with a loaded gun on his hip? He has had numerous hours training in safety, PPE, welding, etc.

Paul

[Sheep Have Wool]

My question is: Would you want this idiot running around with a loaded gun on his hip? He has had numerous hours training in safety, PPE, welding, etc.

This is definitely a tricky question, and striking an appropriate balance here is rough. I had someone in my CHL class that was completely unfamiliar with the operation of his P229. (Decocking, how does it work?) In the end, I'd prefer to err on the side of allowing both of those guys to have a CHL, though. Why, when one is a moron and the other has no idea how to operate his firearm?

• What do you say to someone that has a relatively sudden need for a weapon? Someone that has a stalker, or is getting out of a bad relationship? "Sorry! You need thousands of dollars in training and practice to stick that J-frame in your purse!"
• Idiots with guns shoot themselves or others at home rather than out in public. They can do this with or without a CHL. Other than at gun stores, most people - even idiots - aren't whipping out their pistols to flash around all the time.

We have to make one rule for everyone. I'd prefer that rule handle item #1 above, and I'd like my CHL training class to focus on the fact that a CHL is not a Batman license.

That said, I feel that it's completely irresponsible for someone to carry without getting sufficient training. And I'm for a less-restricted CHL+ that is limited to more qualified gun handlers.

I equate that to the number of people who drive with no idea how to do anything to their car but drive and gas it up. Plenty couldn't locate a spark plug if you asked them.

Yeah! And people who operate computers without the ability to swap a broken CPU fan, or send credit card information over the Internet without knowing the first thing about public key cryptography, or use a cell phone without even the slightest hint of what the difference between CDMA and GSM is! How irresponsible!
[/sarcasm]

We all have our interests, and we all have things we use on a daily basis - even really, really important things that can affect our lives and the lives of others - that we take for granted. Let's avoid throwing too many stones when someone prioritizes something differently than we do.

[Tamara]

We don't have qualification courses here. No training requirement, either.

Don't have renewals, either, come to think of it.

Surprisingly little blood in the streets, though. Funny, that.

[Stengun]

Howdy,

I don't have all the answers but I know We need nut control, not gun control.

Paul