How much should the gun/trigger system matter?

[Handy]

I shot IDPA last week with a 40 year old HK P9S. DA/SA, heel release mag, 4 inch barrel. I was no superman, but I shot well enough on several stages to get a few admiring grunts from the regulars. I don't find the DA to SA transition to be a big deal, and my mag changes were no slower than slingshotters'. I also shot part of one stage single handed.

I came across this forum and was amazed to find people here who are actual proponents of DA/SA and LEM triggers, rather than Glocks with 3.5 connectors and 1911s.

I also recall years ago when IDPA nationals were won with P226s and Beretta 92s.


For this type of "practical" shooting, how much does the platform matter? If some of those terrible grouping M&P pistols are reasonable choices, just how much extra time or dropped points should someone shooting a 92FS or a 5904 expect over those shooting Glock 34s or PPQs? If you can control a DA trigger, is there really that much difference with any 9mm pistol at those ranges?

Reading the recent thread about the HK P30 woes shooting one handed made me think that shooters emphasize many aspects of gun design, but in the end the gun didn't work because the grip didn't index well, making all that other stuff irrelevant. I'd kind of like to think someone with good DA trigger control could buy a $400 Bersa and shoot 99% as well as with whatever wonderplastic they normally use.

[hossb7]

This is an applicable quote from a thread you may have seen:

Of course we could save all of that, pick a platform that best fits our lifestyle and needs and practice to a solid level of performance and work hard to maintain that level for our chosen system. If we want to participate in some type of competitive event, sport, or chase a specific shooting achievement or test, then knock your self out and chose the "thing" that is best for that. This isn't really that complicated. It's sort of why I carry a HK LEM pistol of some sort daily, even though I can do better on some shooting tests with a compensated 1911.

It really comes down to the shooter. I posted recently about my transition from being a long-time P226 shooter to an M&P and that my performance has been positively reflected. YMMV.

[LSP972]

I'd kind of like to think someone with good DA trigger control could buy a $400 Bersa and shoot 99% as well as with whatever wonderplastic they normally use.

And I think you would be correct.

As to all the angst in the other threads you reference (and I share some of it), you have probably figured out by now that most of the active participants here are, shall we say… a bit more clued in than your average gun board denizen. Yes, there is some over-analyzing going on, but much of that is in the spirit of discovery, as opposed to the "gee-whiz" factor.

Your tale of shooting IDPA with a P9S reminds me of the last IDPA event I went to. A fellow showed up who looked like he stepped right out of the pages of 1974's epic "Cooper on Handguns"; mid-60s, Levi jeans, rough-out work boots, a western style shirt, a Hoag custom 1911, and by-God genuine Gordon Davis leather all around; belt, holster, and double mag pouch. The fellow said he had been into the game heavy in his youth, then family and work put everything else aside. Now retired, he decided to dust off the old gear and try his hand again. He did fine.

What you're seeing here is people who know of a world beyond Glocks and other VolksPistoles. And although the phrase has been used enough now that it almost seems trite… it really IS the Indian, not the arrow.

.

[JHC]

I think its all relative to the GM quotient the shooter is functioning at.

There may be a handful of freaks at the pinnacle for whom it doesn't matter. And there may be a big chunk of just decent shooters for whom it doesn't matter. For a lot of good to GREAT shooters; equipment; especially the trigger makes a significant difference for extremely fancy shooting. Equipment pretty much always matters. If it matters enough to be important? YMMV.

[Tamara]

...buy a $400 Bersa...

Let's not talk crazytalk, now.

[jetfire]

Let's not talk crazytalk, now.

I was all like "lol" then I went to gunbroker and actually looked. Most of the guns listed under the Bersa Thunder Pro are going for 4 bills or more.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Semi-Auto-P...sa+thunder+pro

I has a sad.

[Handy]

Tamara! A name from a distant time...

[okie john]

I'll start by saying that I have nowhere near the IDPA experience that many folks on here do. That said, I find that IDPA is a good way to add stress to basic shooting tests, but the quality of shooters and officials, as well as the difficulty of stages, can vary wildly from club to club. If you can run a heel-release SA/DA pistol well, then you'd do very well in a lot of our club matches, but you might be trailing the pack at another club. In any case, a shooter who really knows his or her way around a good semi-auto pistol can go a long way before gear starts holding them back in IDPA.

I think that this forum emphasizes SA/DA and LEM pistols because the posters are studying how to fight more than they’re studying how to shoot. The Glock and the 1911 are good for fighting, but posters here find that other designs offer real benefits during the events that precede and follow actual gunfights. A forum that focuses on winning matches may regard equipment differently. Also, switched-on shooters have established performance benchmarks in a context that's relevant to their needs. A big-city SWAT cop will have a different needs than a military CQB specialist, whose needs will differ from that of a sheriff's deputy in a rural county, and so on. A lot of these folks are looking for relatively small improvements that matter to their specific situations. While instructive, these improvements may be less important for other people.


Okie John

[LSP972]

[QUOTE=okie john;218831]
The Glock and the 1911 are good for fighting, but posters here find that other designs offer real benefits during the events that precede and follow actual gunfights.

And that about covers it.

Beautifully stated.

.

[Handy]

I wish there were more people using NY1 and NY2 triggers with standard connectors in their Glocks to comment on that those guns being more applicable to those "non-fighting" applications.