That's incredible. It's hard to even imagine a smith of a gun being called a gunsmith. All I know of 'gunsmiths' are part fitters, and distinction is who makes a funny looking grip surface.Originally Posted by Bill Riehl
That's incredible. It's hard to even imagine a smith of a gun being called a gunsmith. All I know of 'gunsmiths' are part fitters, and distinction is who makes a funny looking grip surface.
A gunsmith can make you a gun out of a chunk of metal. An armorer can make sure your extractor fits in the gun.
Custom guns. That's what I've seen offered. And all it means is you get to choose your parts that are fitted. Well fitted, sure. But it's still just parts fitting, at Springfield Custom, Wilson Combat, Les Baer, Nighthawk, Akai, Dawson, Brazos, Limcat, I could go on until my keyboard breaks with the 1911 'smiths' out there... even the smiths who are just known by their name, you ask them for a 1911 with an HK mag, half ramped barrel, push rod trigger, reversed frame rails, redesigned beavertail and a reworked barrel link? I'd give good odds on getting a funny look at best.
Edit: I'm absolutely enthused by the idea of 3D printing being ubiquitous and leading the way to truly custom guns.
Last edited by Haraise; 05-02-2014 at 11:18 PM.
Okay, you win.
Seriously, though, most gunsmithing schools have for a final exam actually making a gun. Granted, it's usually a break action or falling-block, but that's a big difference from "I've been to Brand X Armorer's School! I R A Gunsmith!"
ETA: To paraphrase a friend, most of the people waving their hands about the miracle of 3D printing on the intertubes couldn't turn a Bridgeport mill on. It's just another way to make parts; one still has to put the parts together to make things.
Last edited by Tamara; 05-02-2014 at 11:30 PM.
It will likely lead to more mangled hands than anything else. Half the gun companies barely have a handle on how guns work. When anyone else decides to redesign a gun based on their ideas, there's a good chance the printer is going to produce a hand-bomb.
Word.
FWIW, a lot of folks don't have any experience with real gunsmiths. I have at least three firearms (one of my Frommer Stops, a Colt 1902 Military, and a Webley Mk.IN) that wouldn't be running at all if gunsmiths hadn't fabricated replacement parts out of steel stock largely by eyeball and without even any technical drawings from which to work.
And that'll be fine. The awesome thing about distributed design is that if it blows up, the community fixes it. Just don't be the first one!
Super high tolerance automatic part production will eliminate the need for fitting, and gunsmithing can turn from guys with files to engineers with computer aided design, fluid analysis, stress analysis and some high end CNC/3D printing. That's something I can get behind. Not Tom down the street printing out Zipgun version .1.2 alpha.
QFT.
RE: Printing. This reminds me of the MIM argument, nee' casting argument. It really all depends on who is doing it and how. Pick the right metal, sinter right, and it won't become an issue. 3D printing, aka additive manufacturing, has been in use for quite some time (like MIM and casting were before the firearms world discovered it), and many of the bugs have been worked out to allow excellent prototypes to be made with material suitable to making things like barrels.
That said, hand a printer to a bunch of non-engineers and sure, fingers will be lost.
RE: CAD - I actually blame the loss of prototyping in favor of 3D modeling for the fleas on many modern designs. The 92, USP, pre-plastic Smiths, P88, and so on were all built up in a model shop, were tested, then re-designed and tested again. The FNS, I'd put money on the frame molds being made w/o a prototype ever existing. Which, IMO, is why mags fall out of the gun from the strong hand hitting the ambi button. Additive manufacturing would certainly help this though.
Just my $0.02
I have seen a lot of SIG 210 test targets and while some are quite good, 90% are not 1" guns though. More like 3", 50 M guns based on their 6 shot targets. The new German made ones are more like 2" guns at 25 M based on the targets I have seen.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=392890066
I think the SIG shoots so well because the pistols are made to the tightest specs of any handgun in the world. They are beautifully made to one set of prints and are basically offered in one breechface dimension of the best materials. They are grossly overbuilt for the caliber they shoot and the barrel quality is splendid. Full length slide rails are nice also.
In my opinion the build quality and attention to detail are severely hampered by poor ergonomics, low capacity, less than good sights, lousy triggers and excessive weight for the caliber. The most overrated gun on earth.
But it is a great gun otherwise
Linkless systems reduce 2 parts and strengthen the locking lug and they are a superior method IF you control every part on the gun like SIG does.
In a 1911, the various link dimensions gives you the latitude to fit a barrel to guns of varying dimensions-a problem SIG doesn't have to contend with since their dimensions are all practically the same.
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