Salient G41 Tier 2

[klewis]

Maybe a better way to ask the question would be if a lightened slide and weaker recoil spring would make for a gun that allows for less muzzle rise and would allow faster follow up shots, why doesn't Glock and every other manufacturer just make the slide lighter and add a weaker recoil spring from the get go?

My guess (I'm not a physicist or engineer.) is momentum. Lighter slides have less momentum. That means they're easier to slow down with things like hammer springs and flat bottom FPB (see Bill, I was reading! ), so not as much frame battering, less reciprocating mass up high, but also less umph to close an a slightly out of spec round, less reliability to go into battery when dirty or without lube, etc.

Heavy slides, in other words, make reliability easier, I suspect. Thus, many companies who mass produce duty guns go with them, despite the fact that lighter slides may give some desirable characteristics as far as shooting performance.

By all means, if I have this wrong and you know it, correct me, but that's what I've gleaned.

[Savage Hands]

Heh. One of the cool kids, eh?

Anyway, Glock rep got back to me this morning. Paraphrasing his response: that subfamily of pistols was originally developed for the high-pressure/high-recoil-impulse 10mm cartridge, so it would make sense that the slide would weigh less when set up for the low-pressure .45 ACP cartridge.

Putting on my engineer hat, I don't think the lighter slide automatically means the G41 is running on the ragged edge of too little mass. It's an open question as to how much you can remove without impacting function, and it will be interesting to see if Salient stayed sufficiently within the performance envelope to keep the gun running reliably.

It would also be interesting to know if they made up a bit for reduced slide mass with spring changes.

You want a G41 via SSE? I can make that happen.

[Handy]

Heavier slides keep the breech locked longer. Something you may appreciate if you're firing +P+ ammo and you've lightened the slide too much.

Heavy slides eat actual recoil, since there is more mass to oppose the recoil of the round - which isn't the same thing as decreasing muzzle flip.

Heavy slides prevent frame battering. Which is why Glocks and 1911s last so long, and light slide guns like the BHP do not.

[Sparks2112]

So, after some gentle reflection I've come to an interesting conclusion.

I'm capable of stunning displays of arrogance and egotism. So much so that it's even surprising to me, and I KNOW how big of a jerk I am.

Anyway, my apologies for my behavior. I responded to comments I found deeply offensive personally in a way that if I'm being extremely charitable, was inappropriate. I'll make one final statement regarding SAI guns then I'm going to recuse myself from the forum for awhile while I search for a gifted proctologist to help me remove my head from my rectum.

SAI makes boutique guns that appeal to a niche crowd. In my personal dealings with the Chavez brothers whom own/operate SAI as well as some of the "celebrities" mentioned earlier in the thread I've always been impressed by the underlying commitment to making a quality product that all parties demonstrated. If you were to ask SAI they would tell you they don't make competition guns and that's certainly not the end user they have in mind. I could speak further as to why guys like Costa/Lamb/Falla etc... use their guns but it's honestly not my place to say. I will say that the reaction you'd get from any of them were you to in person suggest that their opinion/name could be bought via a few discounted guns would be, unpleasant. Are they overpriced? I don't know how to answer that. Harley Davidson's make little sense to me but they sure seem to sell a lot of them.

Regarding value to performance ratio. I have some pretty strong opinions regarding that based off of a couple of factors. One being the number of rounds I've actually fired through one. The other being the very hard to ignore fact that real world examples demonstrate time and time again that for the average citizen in most situations, training, firearm selection, and caliber used matter very little. I honestly believe however that very few, if any, of you here are interested in hearing what I have to say regarding that at this point. :shrug:

The same arguments used to come to the decision against buying an SAI gun could also be used to invalidate the selection of a P30, Sig 226, Glock 17, as well as any class one would choose to attend.

As I stated earlier, the number of people making statements regarding the performance gains achieved with an SAI gun, whom have never actually shot one, is disturbing. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, but what exactly are you basing your information on? If someone else was making similar statements regarding a product they had no experience with would you find that acceptable?

In closing, buy what you want. Train with whom you want to train with. Be less concerned with what other people do with their time/money.

I'm gonna go look for that proctologist now.

[Handy]

Sparks,

I don't think anyone who hasn't shot this weapon would say that it doesn't work well. I do think that it might be possible to say that everyone here has shot enough pistols to know that even the most lovingly re-worked Glock is still just a recoil operated, polymer frame centerfire pistol, and isn't going to run like a Pardini .22 target pistol, or even an Open Class IPSC race gun. I think that is the limiting factor in my imagination, and why it is hard to see spending 5 times the price for the worlds very best Glock.

And, just like your Harley comment, I don't see what there is to get worked up about. I like motorcycles and am biased against Harley's, even though I have never ridden one. Is a different kind of traditional motorcycle or a variation on a common polymer duty gun really something that is beyond the collective imagination?