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Thread: Dear P30: I'm not sure we were meant to be together

  1. #1
    Member TheTrevor's Avatar
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    Dear P30: I'm not sure we were meant to be together

    When you first showed up in my life, way back in February 2014, I knew that we'd be spending a lot of time together. After renting/borrowing various guns, I'd already decided to take you to Rogers as my new 9mm pistol, and that I'd be feeding you thousands of rounds of gun food during the work-up process.

    Things were great at first. Precision-style fire at the range was a bit challenging until I found the right combination of grip panels, hand position, and spring setup so we would work well together, but after that we got along swimmingly. I fed you the finest Freedom Munitions ammo (by the thousand) until I could run you with confidence. I had you custom-fitted for two different JM Custom Kydex holsters, an AIWB extra-tuck holster for concealment and an OWB holster for when you were wearing your shiny new Streamlight TLR-2.

    Then we went to Rogers together, and the honeymoon was over. The Rogers program will expose flaws in one's shooting ability (and equipment) like nothing else I've ever seen, particularly with the huge focus on single-hand shooting. My decade-plus of experience with your giant square-framed Viking uncles from the USP side of the family eventually clued me in to something important:

    It's really, really hard to consistently draw a rounded-grip gun (cough*HK spiderman grip*cough) from a concealment-oriented AIWB holster with anything resembling consistency of grip position. Worse, that lovely TGS/v4 LEM trigger setup that I'd come to so appreciate when shooting at a deliberate pace turned out to be a serious liability at Rogers, and to a lesser but significant extent, USPSA style shooting. A grip that varies randomly by several degrees in each direction on the draw is NOT good for maintaining a proper and consistent relationship between fingertip and trigger, to put it mildly.

    Maybe the problem lies with me, but I don't think so. I coined the term "HK Discount" at Rogers ("Good for an automatic 15% off your test scores!") and pretty much everyone I discussed it with agreed with me that it was a real problem -- HK LEM guns are so, um, challenging during the SHO/WHO tests that they drag down the total score by roughly 15%. The clincher, though, was when I spent a grand total of 20 minutes warming up with a completely different gun which was entirely new to me (an M&P 9fs with Apex kit, from the Rogers armory) and immediately shot a passing score on my final attempt at the Rogers Test. And that happened even though I had a user-induced malfunction which cost me the opportunity to shoot an entire 8-plate sequence.

    So... where do we go from here? Do I keep you around as an excellent concealed-carry/hard-use gun even knowing that, one day, you may induce me to miss a critical SHO or WHO shot? Or is it time for us to part ways, and for me to sell you to fund the purchase of a different AIWB-safe gun to run in USPSA Limited 10?

    Suggestions welcome.
    Looking for a gun blog with AARs, gear reviews, and the occasional random tangent written by a hardcore geek? trevoronthetrigger.wordpress.com/
    Latest post: The Rogers Shooting School Experience (15 Jul 2014)

  2. #2
    Member TheTrevor's Avatar
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    Addendum: Metal-framed SIGs, CZs, and even thumb-safety-equipped M&Ps are looking enticing right about now, as I know from experience that I can pick up common models from any of those lines and immediately shoot them well.
    Looking for a gun blog with AARs, gear reviews, and the occasional random tangent written by a hardcore geek? trevoronthetrigger.wordpress.com/
    Latest post: The Rogers Shooting School Experience (15 Jul 2014)

  3. #3
    This may not be a popular opinion among the folks at this forums, but I'm of the opinion that if a shooter and a gun don't get along they should separate. Now, I don't mean that in the extremes that some people take it to, where they get on the 'net and justify some total oddball low tier junk purchase with "It works for me." What I do mean is that there are enough good service style pistols out there from Glock, Smith and Wesson, SIG, Beretta, and HK (and maybe a couple more I forgot) that a person should be able to find a durable, reliable, accurate and shootable choice for them.

    I tried the DA/SA P30. After a brief honeymoon period where I thought it was the greatest thing ever, I came to realize that I shot the Beretta 92 better. I let the P30 go and went back to my Berettas without regret.

  4. #4
    Member Gary1911A1's Avatar
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    I like to carry a similar model to what I shoot in competition with as I don't have the money to stay proficient with two different operating systems. Sounds like the M&P system worked for you so you might want to explore that.

  5. #5
    I think (as a blogger) that a good test and series of articles on a Walther would be great.
    #RESIST

  6. #6
    Member west-cobb's Avatar
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    Georgia
    If the P30 is not working for you then I would move onto another platform. I compete with a P30L V3 in USPSA and it has been a real commitment to work with in competition. I spend much more time training with it than my G34. Most of my friends are competing with CZ’s. But for me, the P30L is more fun to shoot…
    P30L, G34, G17C
    USPSA - Production Divsion

  7. #7
    If you are trying to use a gun for the sole purpose of getting a particular grade at Rogers, then dump it if the mission is a Rogers rating. Get the equipment you need for whatever it is you are trying to attain.

    I ran my P30 at a PMAC TAPS class yesterday, and I won't discuss the "outcome", but my performance was just fine with the gun, particularly on any drill that was based on fairly stationary shooting. The HK P30 never "induced me" to miss a single shot including the SHO and WHO shots. Is it the best thing in the whole world for single hand work....probably not. Is the gun that would be the best thing in the world for shingle hand work be the best for being engaged in a high stress physical incident while keeping an unknown at gun point.....probably not. Pick your poison. The couple of shots "I" missed were because of "me" doing something that I could correct, and not the gun. I was one of very few who passed to the more advanced levels that required lots of single hand shooting. It took a correction on my part on a couple things to get there, but I don't think a different pistol would have helped. The only thing holding me back was my running. I find things like TAPS to be more in line with what I am doing these days, and the equipment was not the problem, and actually an enhancement in my mind.
    Last edited by Dagga Boy; 04-27-2014 at 08:17 AM.
    Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
    "If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".

  8. #8
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    Sometimes, no matter how good a gun's lineage, or how well constructed, it just doesn't work for a given shooter. At that point, you reall need to drill down and analyize what the specific causal factors are. In TheTrevor's case, it sounds like there are potentially two: Grip and trigger action.

    Regarding the grip: Do you have the right combination of grip panels/backstrap for you ergonomically? It sounds like you previously pretty thoroughly analyized and empiracally tested, but you might want to re-visit this aspect of the gun.

    Regarding the action: Is the LEM, and more specifically , the LEM variant you settled on the right one of you? If not, perhaps an jaunt in the DA/SA action realm with the P30 might be worthwhile before discarding the platform.

    If you can't achieve satisfactory results after re-analyizing and experimenting, then you probably should move to a diferent platform that empirically works for you...That's especially tough when you have a well made, well regarded, high-price platform that you've expended not insignificant resources on. But if you demonstrably do better with other platforms (and there are no overwhelming dispositive reasons inherent to the other platforms that would in turn disqualify them from selection), that migh truly be a clue that the P30 (or any other gun/platform) isn't the right selection (or the right selection for concentration of use) for you.

    Sorry, guy. But it's probably happened to all of us at different levels.

    Best, Jon

  9. #9
    I went with the P30 a couple months ago KNOWING i was facing a learning curve with the trigger, and with very little in the way of expectation, other than the gun working. I share the opinion that not all guns work for all people. My personal kryptonite is the Browning High Power. I LOVE everything about the gun, the looks, the ergonomics, the features, the room for upgrades (modest or massive). But I shoot them like absolute poop. I know there are excellent BHPs out there, and sometimes I see one and think, "I must have...", but I always leave them where they lay.

    Now - in order to flatten out the learning curve some, I did go with the DA/SA variant, because I was coming from Sig to H&K, and wanted to keep that relatively consistent. Also, the Light LEM, I think is far too light for me - but that was a judgment I had to make absent getting to shoot the gun, so I may revisit that decision at some point in the future.

    To me, the decision on whether or not to invest more time in it would come down to available time, and the marginal differences. If you are talking about slightly slower splits, or slightly less accuracy with the H&K, that is one thing. But it sounds like you have more interface concerns (control placement...), and those you are going to have a hard time training into comfort. Possible, but it may take you a LOT of time and ammo.

    -shooter

  10. #10
    Member BaiHu's Avatar
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    I'm not going to try and convince anyone to stay with any particular platform, but having worked a P30 in V3 for several years and recently switching to V1, I can say it's a tough pill. I can shoot a glock pretty decently given that I shoot my G19 once a quarter, but it doesn't fit my "safe" profile. Lastly, this may come off as insulting, but when is the last time you did a ball/dummy drill with your P30. Switching from the heavier DA and shorter resetting SA of the V3 or the "button" of a G19 into a long, soft take up followed by a hard break along with a longer reset brought back some amateur low/left shots. Many times tight groups in a 2" circle, but grouped low/left.

    Just food for thought.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    Fairness leads to extinction much faster than harsh parameters.

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