Vetting some new techniques I learned

[TR675]

Just my opinion again, but the pistol is out of the holster whether high ready or in a sight picture, it's both brandishing and menacing although justified if I'm in reasonable belief my life is in imminent danger.

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This depends entirely on how your local laws are written.

[Odin Bravo One]

I guess my question as a civilian would be what can you do from high ready that you can't do from a sight picture?

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Civilian/LE/Mil/Contractor/Profession/reason for lawful ownership & carry of firearms and the ensuing use of force, and potentially Deadly Force is much more irrelevant than some would have you believe. There are many myths about distinctions, differences in "missions", and how different professions are somehow exempt from the law.

And there is A LOT that can be done from a High Ready.

Except by the OP's description, that is not "High Ready". That is some mall ninja bullshit adaptation of a technique developed by TEES Brazil for a specific set of conditions, with a specific group of people, who had specific gunhandling issues, and has been bastardized, misunderstood, and has infiltrated most low rent (ignorant) instructor's curriculum.

I too am very turned off by the thought of a Versa-carry being recommended.

Drawing to a muzzle-averted, vision-unobstructed ready position can be a perfectly valid thing to do, just as it can be perfectly valid to draw and start firing accurately as soon as possible. Depends on the situation. There should also be some discussion as to when one is appropriate vs. the other. That's an under-discussed distinction IMHO.

Gear selection matters, someone with a derpy set up is certainly inviting deeper analysis into what they're saying, though everything should be questioned anyway, no matter the source.

I don't consider gear selection as a basis for an instructor's creds, experience, etc., etc.............. however, in many cases, it can be a symptom of bigger issues.

If the guy has validated that gear, within the scope of the course/curriculum intent & it's real world application in actual defensive scenarios, who am I to say he is wrong?

BUT, when said gear has been hard use/defensive oriented tested by validated and vetted SME trainers and instructors, and the issues/failures well documented..............we are back to those "bigger issues". The biggest concern I have at that point is "Does this guy do? Or just teach? Does he actually go out and shoot this gear under realistic conditions? Has his info, TTP's, and recommendations been tested, or is he teaching theory?" Without definitive evidence that he has done the work himself, and everything he teaches and/or recommends is based on actual use........ everything he says is suspect because no one person knows it all........and in this case, his information is in direct contradiction to the top tier trainers who not only train and teach, but have spent a lifetime as armed professionals who not only T&E their gear, but know how to T&E. In most cases, their recommendations are based on years and years of experience with said gear.

Given the totality of the circumstances, bastardization and subsequent recommendation of these modified techniques, added to the questionable recommendation of gear with documented poor performance records, I'll go out on a limb and say his position on position is flawed, poorly articulated (as relayed by the OP) for real world application/justification, and not personally validated/vetted.

I truly believe that an honest "Student" of "The Game" can and will learn something from any trainer or instructor, at whatever level. In this case, I see two lessons learned.

1) Never go back.
2) Do not recommend to family and friends.

[orionz06]

Yeah, I just assumed that someone carrying that gun in that thing that resembles a holster hasn't done any amount of work. I make this assumption knowing that I have and others have and concluded them to be a bad choice.

[TCinVA]

Probably the biggest change I encountered was with the way this particular instruction taught the draw stroke. Rather that drawing, clearing the holster and presenting the gun on target, the instruction taught to draw, clear the holster and come up to what he called a high ready or SUL.

I've seen position SUL screwed up in many imaginative ways, but I've never seen it taught so horrifically that it's confused with being a high ready position before...so kudos to him for novelty.

SUL means south. It's nothing more than a means of aiming the muzzle of the gun down at the ground for those occasions when it may be required to move from A to B with a gun in your hand without muzzling someone. This becomes rather important if you're part of a group of people who have to go hunt bad guys in structures in the dark. It's not really a ready position or fighting system or anything like that...it's just a quick, convenient way to teach people how to move around with a handgun without violating any major safety rules.

Drawing and coming to SUL strikes me as unnecessary.

On some occasions it may well be to your advantage to present a weapon to scare a threat away. You can accomplish that fairly simply by drawing to a low ready position, finger off trigger. Your master grip is established and if it becomes necessary to shoot all you have to do is raise the gun and work the trigger. Drawing to a proper SUL (the proper SUL...I have no idea what the smurf that guy was teaching) when confronted by someone threatening enough that you think you need the handgun out isn't terribly useful because you still have to reacquire your two handed grip on the weapon.

There are times when drawing to a ready position and giving verbal commands is a stupid idea...such as when an attack is taking place. If bullets are already flying, or if someone armed with a contact weapon/blunt object is already closing distance on you, verbal commands are not the proper response.

We've had some discussion about drawing the gun before that was pretty illuminating:

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...tol-at-someone

Might be worth your while to read through that.

As for the whole "ready to fire" angle, people take that out of context. You don't want to whip the heater out willy nilly because if done at the wrong time it's aggravated assault, which is a serious crime. At the same time, if you wait to pull the gun until you know you have to pull the trigger you are not doing yourself any favors.

And, yes, a dude talking awesome about Serpas while carrying an XD in a Versacarry is clownshoes. Equipment selection isn't everything, but it does give something of a window into the amount of homework that person has done.

[HopetonBrown]

Here's a great video of Max Joseph explaining his SUL.

[Al T.]

Excellent video HB, thanks for posting.

[45dotACP]

This depends entirely on how your local laws are written.

That is very interesting. I did not know some localities would consider having a firearm in your hand to not be brandishing. I suspect however, that if you are having loud words with someone, and you pop your sidearm to position sul when it was previously concealed, the word might come up.