Transporting magazines greater than 10 rounds through Maryland

[Drang]

Let's be honest, shall we?

Unfortunately, this is a debate that comes down to the lack of trust that many or most police officers don't know what their state or Federal firearms law actually says, and would enforce it properly.

(Edits in red)
This adds nothing to the debate about whether it would be prudent to transport legal objects through any particular jurisdiction on the off chance that you might have contact with a particular police officer there who has a hate on for people who possess that legal object, but this is why the NRA has a Civil Rights Legal Defense Fund - DefaultCivil Rights Legal Defense Fund - Default. Unfortunately, they aren't big enough to help everyone who needs it, and most people I've spoken to who contacted "the NRA" for help were talking to the subscription department, or NRA-ILA.
I am leery of advice to retain a lawyer in advance "just in case", not being in business or anything, but there seem to be more and more lawyers who are savvy re: Firearms law, and maybe, especially if traveling, it might not be a bad idea to pay one a retainer...

[cclaxton]

Maryland Shall Issue has researched this for us: https://marylandshallissue.com/faqs/...zine-capacity/
The law restricts Maryland citizens from purchasing or transferring high capacity magazines within the State. It does not prohibit their possession. In fact, MD citizens are legally able to purchase them in another State and transport them in and use them.

I think everything on this link is correct: http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/maryland.pdf

I am a Virginia resident and I belong to Thurmont, MD gun range and attend AAFG IDPA matches every month and I travel through to Pennsylvania regularly. As long as you keep your guns unloaded and in your trunk or in a locked box in the rear compartment, then Title 18 protects you, as long as you are legally entitled to possess the handgun in your own State. (NOTE: This is not true of banned assault weapons. See thread on this topic if interested.)

Maryland has a specific SPORTING EXCEPTION under the Maryland Code at: § 4-203. (ABBREVIATED) "Wearing, carrying, or transporting handgun

(1) Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, a person may not:

(ii) wear, carry, or knowingly transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, in a vehicle traveling on a road or parking lot generally used by the public, highway, waterway, or airway of the State;

(b) Exceptions. -- This section does not prohibit:

(4) the wearing, carrying, or transporting by a person of a handgun used in connection with an organized military activity, a target shoot, formal or informal target practice, sport shooting event, hunting, a Department of Natural Resources-sponsored firearms and hunter safety class, trapping, or a dog obedience training class or show, while the person is engaged in, on the way to, or returning from that activity if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;"

Just remember your 4th Amendment right against searches: "I consent to no searches." This applies in any State, even where carry is legal.

The whole idea of a cop arresting you because he didn't know the law applies to ANY STATE and to ANY OFFENSE. It is totally bogus to suggest that Maryland cops are any more prone to an illegal search or arrest than any other State. I worry more about the County Sheriff Deputies in rural Virginia more than I do about the Maryland State Police.

Cops could come barging into your house tonight with a "No-knock" warrant using the wrong address for a criminal. Nothing is going to stop mistakes from happening, no matter where you are.
Cody (This is my own understanding, and use of this information is at your own risk.)

[Spr1]

Interesting reminder posted by cclaxton that at present Maryland law conflicts with federal interstate transport law. If I understand both, a big if.....

[cclaxton]

There is no conflict as far as I can see. I was trying to make it clear that there is no issue with non-residents transporting high capacity magazines through Maryland. The law only penalizes RESIDENTS who purchase or transfer within Maryland. It does not penalize possession or transportation or use. (And even allows Maryland residents to purchase elsewhere and bring them in for legal possession and use.)

For pistols, non-residents are covered under Title 18 for driving through Maryland...including high cap magazines, subject to the transport rules.

For attending pistol matches or range practice, residents and non-residents are protected by BOTH Title 18 and State law, subject to transporting unloaded, etc.

Of course you must be legally able to possess the firearms and ammo in your own State of Residence, and it must be legal to possess them at your destination, etc.

Let's not try and demonize Maryland too much here...while there are a number of annoying minor firearms laws in Maryland, the three big issues with the Maryland laws are:
1) No "must issue" for concealed carry;
2) No reciprocity for any other States, although quite a few States do accept the Maryland permit. (BTW, it's not impossible to get a Maryland permit);
3) The "assault weapon" ban that was passed in 2013, which creates a whole bunch of stupid restrictions that create "pre-ban" category of weapons that residents and non-residents must track, and bans legal sporting use of these firearms if purchased after Oct 1, 2013, and a number of other related restrictions. (This would not stop you from transporting them through the State under Title 18).

I travel to Maryland every week, so I try to make sure I know all the laws. That being said, confirm it for yourself.
Cody

[joshs]

There is no conflict as far as I can see. I was trying to make it clear that there is no issue with non-residents transporting high capacity magazines through Maryland. The law only penalizes RESIDENTS who purchase or transfer within Maryland. It does not penalize possession or transportation or use. (And even allows Maryland residents to purchase elsewhere and bring them in for legal possession and use.)

For pistols, non-residents are covered under Title 18 for driving through Maryland...including high cap magazines, subject to the transport rules.

For attending pistol matches or range practice, residents and non-residents are protected by BOTH Title 18 and State law, subject to transporting unloaded, etc.

Of course you must be legally able to possess the firearms and ammo in your own State of Residence, and it must be legal to possess them at your destination, etc.

Let's not try and demonize Maryland too much here...while there are a number of annoying minor firearms laws in Maryland, the three big issues with the Maryland laws are:
1) No "must issue" for concealed carry;
2) No reciprocity for any other States, although quite a few States do accept the Maryland permit. (BTW, it's not impossible to get a Maryland permit);
3) The "assault weapon" ban that was passed in 2013, which creates a whole bunch of stupid restrictions that create "pre-ban" category of weapons that residents and non-residents must track, and bans legal sporting use of these firearms if purchased after Oct 1, 2013, and a number of other related restrictions. (This would not stop you from transporting them through the State under Title 18).

I travel to Maryland every week, so I try to make sure I know all the laws. That being said, confirm it for yourself.
Cody

Just to clarify, the magazine prohibitions are not in any way tied to a person's status as a resident or non-resident of Maryland. Non-residents are subject to the same magazine prohibitions as residents, but as a practical matter, non-residents are probably only likely to risk violating the transfer prohibition. While it's normally considered to be standard range etiquette to pick up shooters' mags for them as part of the stage reset, I wouldn't risk it in Maryland.

[Byron]

Last I checked, it wasn't illegal to drive through Maryland with a firearm locked in the trunk. That legal fact didn't do John Filippidis much good on the side of the road as his car was being disassembled by Maryland's finest-and he didn't even HAVE a gun in the vehicle.

You're correct: driving through MD with a firearm locked in the trunk is not illegal.

I see a few issues with using this article to bolster your point, however.

1. While trunk carry is legal in MD, carrying in the glove box or center console is NOT. (At least without a MD carry permit). It is treated like a concealed firearm if carried in these spots. When questioned, the husband said he didn't have his gun. When the officer asked the wife separately about the gun, she responded with "Maybe in the glove [box]. Maybe in the console."

2. Despite your earlier warnings about travel, this case did not end with a "seized vehicle," or a "weekend in jail." The citizen was detained on the side of the road, then left to go. It doesn't mean I'm happy about what happened in this case, and I still have a lot of questions about the initial stop. The fact remains, however, that a passenger in a vehicle hypothesized about potentially illegal behavior by the driver (again: carrying in the glove box or center console).

3. Mailing your posessions is not a risk-free practice. Honestly, how often are people on these forums getting pulled over? I've been driving in MD my entire life, and have been pulled over 3 or 4 times. In all cases, I was exceeding the speed limit. At no time during these events was I ever asked about the contents of my vehicle.

During my same lifetime, I have lost items in the mail: more than a handful. Speaking only for myself, I statistically have a greater chance of losing mailed magazines than I do of even being pulled over in the first place, much less having them stolen by an officer.

4. Your earlier advice was:

...mailing the magazines via UPS/Fedex to your destination is a smarter tactic. Or buying 10 rounders and using those instead. Both approaches are better then trusting fate you won't get stopped by an ignorant LEO en route.

Ordering 10 round magazines are cheap insurance compared to a weekend in jail, an impounded vehicle,and a seized weapon.

By your description, these represent an "ounce of prevention" that prevent the need for a "pound of cure."

But the man in your case went a step even beyond your advice. He could have been said to have an entire pound of prevention: he had no firearm with him at all. Did your solution help him?

We can both agree that people get jammed up sometimes, even though they haven't actually broken the law. Maybe it's a mistake. Maybe it's a miscommunication. Maybe it's malice. It happens for a multitude of reasons.

But your resulting advice doesn't logically follow. Since maybe, just maybe, you'll run into a hyperactive officer with a bone to pick, you should obey laws that... don't exist.

Do you really think something like this could happen in MD?
"Excuse me sir, do you have any weapons in your vehicle?"
"Yes, I have a handgun in my trunk."
"I hate handguns! And I hate hi-cap mags! What kind of mag do you have?"
"Only 10 rounds sir."
"Drat, I was going to arrest you, but now I have to let you go."

Here's a position that is perfectly analogous to yours:

Because there have been reports of police officers illegally searching people for narcotics in New Mexico, you shouldn't drive through NM with your legal prescription for Prozac. Better mail it to your destination, just to be safe. Sure, your possession of the Prozac is 100% legal, but what if an officer doesn't know that? You could end up getting multiple rectal exams like that poor chap did.

Or because, in times past, people have been arrested for saying bad words in public, we should probably just stop saying bad words in public: even if perfectly legal. After all, a stupid officer might arrest us.

In your effort prevent officers from infringing on your rights, you are simply giving up your rights.

[Dropkick]

TL;DR

Byron thinks we should all keister our high-cap mags while in MD.
I'll be putting mine on a tactical lanyard for quick-deploy.

Coming Soon:
Keister Keeper Mag Pouch (TM, patent pending, etc.)
"Putting square pegs in round holes"

[orionz06]

Byron thinks we should all keister our high-cap mags while in MD.
I'll be putting mine on a tactical lanyard for quick-deploy.

Coming Soon:
Keister Keeper Mag Pouch (TM, patent pending, etc.)
"Putting square pegs in round holes"

You know... This does explain why you guys don't come up here often.

I'll send some Froglube.

[Spr1]

There is no conflict as far as I can see. I was trying to make it clear that there is no issue with non-residents transporting high capacity magazines through Maryland. The law only penalizes RESIDENTS who purchase or transfer within Maryland. It does not penalize possession or transportation or use. (And even allows Maryland residents to purchase elsewhere and bring them in for legal possession and use.)

For pistols, non-residents are covered under Title 18 for driving through Maryland...including high cap magazines, subject to the transport rules.

For attending pistol matches or range practice, residents and non-residents are protected by BOTH Title 18 and State law, subject to transporting unloaded, etc.

Of course you must be legally able to possess the firearms and ammo in your own State of Residence, and it must be legal to possess them at your destination, etc.

Let's not try and demonize Maryland too much here...while there are a number of annoying minor firearms laws in Maryland, the three big issues with the Maryland laws are:
1) No "must issue" for concealed carry;
2) No reciprocity for any other States, although quite a few States do accept the Maryland permit. (BTW, it's not impossible to get a Maryland permit);
3) The "assault weapon" ban that was passed in 2013, which creates a whole bunch of stupid restrictions that create "pre-ban" category of weapons that residents and non-residents must track, and bans legal sporting use of these firearms if purchased after Oct 1, 2013, and a number of other related restrictions. (This would not stop you from transporting them through the State under Title 18).

I travel to Maryland every week, so I try to make sure I know all the laws. That being said, confirm it for yourself.
Cody

My comment was in relation to "assault rifles" and pre-Oct 2013 purchase vs. post. My understanding is that if you get pulled over in Maryland, perhaps only as a resident, you might have to prove that you purchased said item prior to the law being imposed.

Maryland makes me nauseous, I live here.

But Thurmont is an awesome range complex. See you Saturday?

[TheTrevor]

Byron thinks we should all keister our high-cap mags while in MD.
I'll be putting mine on a tactical lanyard for quick-deploy.

Coming Soon:
Keister Keeper Mag Pouch (TM, patent pending, etc.)
"Putting square pegs in round holes"

OMFG. Dropkick wins.

/thread