Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 45

Thread: Why The Emphasis on Center Mass over Headshots?

  1. #1

    Why The Emphasis on Center Mass over Headshots?

    Given that handguns are weaker weapons then long arms , we can set aside the common basura about "stopping power."

    In my casual perusal of many after action reports, it seems the most decisive way to end a gunfight was a shot to the head or spine.Given that, why does the larger training community stress center of mass hits, then headshots?

    Wouldn't the most logical setup be to aim for the head from the start, THEN take torso shots as the bad guy now begins to juke for cover or concealment? I do realize this is a tougher row to hoe training wise, but that's the whole point of effective training.
    The Minority Marksman.
    "When you meet a swordsman, draw your sword: Do not recite poetry to one who is not a poet."
    -a Ch'an Buddhist axiom.

  2. #2

    Why The Emphasis on Center Mass over Headshots?

    Quote Originally Posted by GardoneVT View Post
    Given that handguns are weaker weapons then long arms , we can set aside the common basura about "stopping power."

    In my casual perusal of many after action reports, it seems the most decisive way to end a gunfight was a shot to the head or spine.Given that, why does the larger training community stress center of mass hits, then headshots?

    Wouldn't the most logical setup be to aim for the head from the start, THEN take torso shots as the bad guy now begins to juke for cover or concealment? I do realize this is a tougher row to hoe training wise, but that's the whole point of effective training.
    My rationale would be something like this, "Better to have one sure hit than one sure miss."

    The center mass of a man is a rather large target. Under stress it is proven that group sizes will open up considerably, therefore a shot to the head would be risky. Personally, I'd make damn sure I got at least one round center mass before I sent one to the melon.

    Also, center mass shots can be a one shot stop. Think about all of the vitals that are in that area. Aorta, Inferior/Superior Vena Cava, thoracic and lumbar spine, lungs, all of which could shut someone down rather quickly.



    Aim center and midline, preferably over the navel. That would do the trick.

    Just my opinion.
    Last edited by rekkr870; 03-31-2014 at 04:45 PM.

  3. #3
    Site Supporter Trukinjp13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Michigan
    My take would be.

    A- headshots have a higher chance of miss under stress. I know I know train to not miss, sounds great til you are in the thick of it.
    B- headshots also do not guarantee kill, the skull is hard. Bullet deflection is a lot more possible in a head shot. Also you can hit a jaw bone/or just a cheek shot. Why do you shoot deer broadside behind the shoulder.....hit a vital organ and you have a kill.

    I am no expert by any stretch but imho if you hit someone center mass with a few well placed shots. You have a good chance at stopping the threat. Softer tissue equals better penetration.

  4. #4
    Site Supporter MD7305's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    NE Tennessee
    High probability target vs. low probability target. I would think it would be easier under stress and conditions to get torso hits instead of head hits. Could head shots be more incapacitating? I would think so but I'm not sure head shots would always be practical under a variety of reasons. I'm sure some members here are that skilled but I'm certainly not.

  5. #5
    Dot Driver Kyle Reese's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central Virginia
    Lots of good stuff to hit in the torso as enumerated above.

    Also, the human skull is resilient, can take a lot of abuse and bullets can (and do) deflect from the cranium.

  6. #6
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Illinois
    To me the reason is "because handguns aren't rifles". Bear with me, this is just the musing of a nursing student, but I'd think a faster, more powerful impact such as with a rifle would make the headshot more certainly deadly, even if not perfectly placed.

    The skull is a very hard thing...the "Hollywood headshot" is a perfectly placed middle forehead shot, but frankly, that's a bad option. It may not penetrate the hardened, curved frontal bone of the cranium. Depending on the round, it may bounce off, it may just stop, or it may just penetrate an inch or two. That may or may not be enough to stop. The definitive lethality of headshots is a more certain when the shot goes in the triangular shaped space defined by the eyes and the tip of the nose because the nose area is considerably more bones, meaning more articulation, meaning the greater the possibility of weakness. The frontal bone is one solid sheet of bone that is curved to make things bounce off and away from the organ it protects. It does so very well. That little nasal area, if the bullet goes directly through, will lead to the brain stem, which is where the greatest likelihood of a stop will occur.

    Also, so many people assume that a headshot will immediately incapacitate, but if you do it wrong. People can still function with brain damage. The way I see it, I'd sooner go for a shot to the neck as opposed to the head (a very vascular zone, and the bullet may still move fast enough to clip the spinal cord or at the very least, strike a vertebra so hard that it impairs mobility)

    Another concern is that the head itself is a very articulated part of the body. It has a fantastic range of motion and so many different ways to move. Add this to the fact that most reflexive startles involve some jerking motion of the head, and you might not be guaranteed a shot into that very small portion of your target. And the bad guy will almost certainly be mobile or capable of moving at least their head. Better to go for the center of mass where you have the right atrium and ventricle, inferior/superior vena cava, ascending/descending aorta and possibly the spine (but don't count on that, as the spine is deep enough to the precordium, that the bullet will have likely expended all of it's energy if it is a hollowpoint).

    Again, I'm not a professional, but being a fan of healthcare, you tend to hear (and see) some pretty weird stuff. Yes, head trauma is more dangerous, but two gunshot wounds in the center of the chest makes surgeons pretty antsy too. Shock sets in pretty quick when the great vessels are damaged. Don't count on one shot stops, head or otherwise.

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Columbus Ohio Area
    Shooting a static target while standing still is much different than a moving target while moving. In my opinion, a better standard would be a head-box sized target inside of the center of mass area, with the understanding that groups open up when you are moving, and that they open up significantly when the target and you are both moving.

  8. #8
    Member TheTrevor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Silicon Valley, CA
    A surprising number of people who stop as a result of getting shot with a handgun do so not because of incapacitating injury, but because of physical and/or psychological shock.

    Last time I checked, unless you're a SWAT/military sniper the general goal in shooting someone is to render them ineffective for further action, i.e. fall down and stay down. Given the significantly lower probability of landing a headshot with a handgun in a real live high-stress situation (vs a CoM shot) and considering that the goal is to incapacitate, the initial target should be CoM/A-zone. You're more likely to hit, and even if you don't hit vitals you stand a good chance of incapacitating via shock.

    Obviously I'm not talking about 1-percenters and/or opponents in body armor. Shooting above (head/neck) or below (pelvis/thigh) CoM should always be in mind as secondary targets, but IMHO it's irresponsible to go for those first unless that's all that's in your line of sight and you have to shoot RIGHT NOW or someone dies.
    Looking for a gun blog with AARs, gear reviews, and the occasional random tangent written by a hardcore geek? trevoronthetrigger.wordpress.com/
    Latest post: The Rogers Shooting School Experience (15 Jul 2014)

  9. #9
    Site Supporter KevinB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    The head moves in multiple axis on a moving axis...

    Get a hit first -- you can move to head if tgt remains active - as with good CoM hits the tgt even in plates is generally going to be disrupted a bit.
    Kevin S. Boland
    Director of R&D
    Law Tactical LLC
    www.lawtactical.com
    kevin@lawtactical.com
    407-451-4544




  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    East Greenwich, RI
    The head is the most animated part if the human body. It moves, a lot, and is a relatively small target compared to the center chest. Spending some time on even a simple moving target system will show you how little margin for error there is on a head-size target. Force on force training will show you just how much a living head moves.

    Look at the hit ratios in real fights where the aiming point is center mass, and then think about reducing the chance of a hit even more. There is a reason that center mass is the standard aiming point except for some very specialized applications/needs that don't have anything to do with general self defense.

    Also, the real target on the head is not the entire thing. I'm personally aware of more than one thug that had a pistol bullet skid around on his skull. Most cops will say the same.

    Ken

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •