Col. Cooper's/Gunsite's Four Rules...

[Jay Cunningham]

We have a rule which seems to concern itself with the condition of the gun; or arguably the mindset of the shooter.

We have a rule which seems to concern itself with the direction of the muzzle.

We have a rule which seems to concern itself with the placement of the finger on the trigger.

We have a rule which once again seems to concern itself with the direction of the muzzle.

[Jay Cunningham]

I think an argument can be made that there is, in fact, a single universal rule of gun handling:

Don't accidentally shoot yourself or someone else.


I think all parties can agree on that as a common goal. So the tools need to provide for that while still letting us do all that other gun stuff.

[Lomshek]

I should have been in your class. I think my range buddies/instructors were a bit over zealous. There wasn't much" discussion". Naturally, I came off as having an attitude problem.

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My BIT class, like Drang's, had a great instructor and the discussion was exactly as he says with "ready to use" including a hot defensive gun because what good, after all, is an empty defensive gun. Like so many things institutional you have instructors who are OK, some who are awesome and some who shouldn't be in front of a class at all.

Personally I'll stick to the four rules but the NRA rules are acceptable too when approached with some common sense (just like the four rules). No exceptions for either just the understanding that there is some implicit fine print in both. Like COL Cooper says the first rule is All Guns Are Always Loaded so one begins with the correct mindset because if it were All Guns Are To Be Treated As If They Are Always Loaded then the first mental thought of many would be "except this one because I carry chamber empty, pulled it out of the safe, use it for quail, etc".

Speaking of which there have been a few cases on arf in the last month or so of posters or friends of posters who shot themselves or friends/wives with guns carried chamber empty or they thought was unloaded.

[Rosco Benson]

Yeesh. "Damn you tinnitus! You’re a cruel mistress."

When I dry fire, I usually do it in the hallway (because it's like 10 yards long) and pointed towards a target taped on the door. There's no ammo in the hallway, and I do a lot of press-checking. I also take the target down before I reload my gun, just to resist the "one more draw" AD.

I recall Milt Sparks telling me that he once had the "one more draw" errant shot thing happen, at his old Idaho City shop. Removing the target before reloading is a good practice.

Rosco

[Cookie Monster]

Just curious, how do you folks feel about non-functional gun shaped objects, like a blue gun, SIRT, sims gun, or gun with a training barrel?

Goes to Rule One. It is a mindset that I will always treat a gun as loaded, trying to get the monkey brain or lizard brain to understand that so it is always done so in the moments when I am just plain stupid things go right.

I can see times and places in training where it is not done but I treat those things like "all guns are loaded." It is what that object represents.

Cookie Monster

[1slow]

Headhunter on his dryfire CD makes the clear point of covering or taking your dryfire target down before reloading, as well as other precautions.

[pax]

Thank you, nyeti. I had not thought of it that way before. There is always something new to learn!

pax

[ford.304]

I recall Milt Sparks telling me that he once had the "one more draw" errant shot thing happen, at his old Idaho City shop. Removing the target before reloading is a good practice.

I've been about 3 lbs of trigger pressure away from doing that one myself. Saw the rounds in the back of the cylinder when I was halfway through the trigger pull. Scared myself out of dry firing for a month.

[rob_s]

/re-thread

[David Armstrong]

from Lomsheck:
ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
Even if they’re empty treat them as if they are loaded.
Never say “It’s unloaded so the rules don’t apply”.
When you relax you get sloppy and shoot people who don’t need shooting.
Don’t be that guy.

I've had classes that revolved around carrying C3. One of the things that was drilled into us at them was that the gun was always handled the same, round chambered or not. The safety rules were to apply across the board. I've taught that to others myself and one of my pet peeves is people that try to argue C3 or unloaded weapons can be handled without concern for safety considerations. As Jay put it:
"Rule #1: All guns are always loaded.
What is this this rule telling us? Sidestepping the "that's not literally true" observation, what is the meaning of Rule#1? Is this rule telling us to treat guns in a certain way? Is this rule giving us guidance? "
That is the way I use it. All guns may not be loaded, but all guns are treated the same loaded or not.