new vtac kind of

[jwperry]

I don't shoot well enough to notice any accuracy issues.

I thought the same thing until I shot a P226R October of last year.
I no longer own M&Ps.

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[Stephen]

This should make everyone feel better about S&W's quality control. They shipped a gun with an unfinished slide (no serrations) to an FFL.

From the comments there, I found this. A 637 that was marked on the frame, packaged, and shipped as a 642.

As someone who owns a bunch of Smiths, including 3 M&Ps, this is really disappointing. The M&Ps have a lot of good qualities, but I felt like they cut corners to beat the Glock price point. I'd rather pay the extra money for a gun that can hit a pie plate at 25 yards and doesn't need a bunch of Apex upgrades right off the bat.

[fixer]

I thought the same thing until I shot a P226R October of last year.
I no longer own M&Ps.

Sent from my GT-I8190L using Tapatalk

Ouch.

[LSP972]

I'd frankly hesitate to by an M&P for two reasons: First, I've heavily (and satisfactorily) invested in Glocks, and simply don't see any significant reasons/gains to be accrued by switching to (or even trying) an M&P; and Second, it seems that every time a factory "fix" comes along, it's shortly followed by another issue incurred by S&W shortcutting in another area to make up for the "fix" (or, alternatively, you can invest in a series of cottage industry aftermarket parts/installations to make what should have been right from the get-go...).

As S&W has reportedly known of effective solutions for some time, yet has either refused, or at best effected what seems to be piecemeal solutions to them, my interest (which in fairness was never particularly high to begin with)has remained with my Glocks, with forays into other more fruitful areas.

I do think that the M&P's ergos are slightly better than Glock's, but practice and familiarly with one's Glock(s) renders such improvements a somewhat fleeting/temporary advantage. That said, if I was confident of the quality and accuracy of the M&P, for a new shooter I'd probably recommend it over a Glock because of the ergos-but I'm simply not at this point ready to recommend them due to their problems. (And I hardly hold 2010-2012 Glocks to be "perfection" personified, either...)

Best, Jon

This. Beautifully stated.

FWIW, my Glocks are "older" ones, before all the Gen4-spawned issues (and I include the later-production Gen3 problems in that); plus, my G19s have custom grip reductions that make an entirely different pistol out of it.

That said... in my experience, Glocks aren't exactly possessed of target-grade accuracy either. But some of the distance patterns (as opposed to groups) reported here and elsewhere from M&P 9s is disturbing. There can be no question in my mind that HK and Sig (and Beretta, for that matter) have it ALL over Glock and/or M&P in the inherent accuracy department.

The M&P grip is really nice. But the accuracy issues with the 9mm examples are disquieting, as is the factory's inability (or unwillingness) to fix it. And that hinged trigger has always bothered me. Its just... bizarre, like the double reset on the DAK.

.

[DBLAction454]

HK. Period. I work way to hard for my money to put it in the hands of businessmen who cut corners to save money or to makeup for a mistake they made.

Yes I know HK makes profit too and yes I know theyre very expensive but they do not cut corners and their guns run all day long....

If you gave me a Glock or an M&P itd be for sale same day.

[tcRenegade]

What accuracy issues are you talking about? Sounds like more shooter practice is needed! Most guys can't shoot to the accuracy of their pistol! My M&P 45C shoots almost as good as my Gen4G21!

[orionz06]

What accuracy issues are you talking about? Sounds like more shooter practice is needed! Most guys can't shoot to the accuracy of their pistol! My M&P 45C shoots almost as good as my Gen4G21!

Well, when most of the guys complaining of accuracy issues go and print 2-3" groups with other guns I think they have a case.

[JMS]

...AND the .45s have never, variant-wide, exhibited such problems, so it's a null opinion from the standpoint of comparing any .45 variant M&P with the 9mm variants in terms of accuracy, except to say "They got the .45s right; why not the 9mm?" I think the only glaring cockups in the .45 line was magazine spring oddities and a far greater level of incidence of auto-forwarding upon slidelock reloads, were they not...?

Having said that -- stating that the shooters unwilling to put foot to ass in regard to confessing that their skillset might not be enough up to snuff to be worth taking what they have to say seriously....I think that IS valid, in the general sense.

Every 9mm M&P I've owned (and in .45....) has produced >2.5" mean-radius groups (never understood the gunboners for using bloody extreme-spread as a stand-alone metric...math, much like the breaking of a hymen, only hurts the first time. Promise!) @25yds, consistently, with just about any not-total-crap ammo, but I know all that means is that I've managed to walk between raindrops. Seen too many of them rate a "What the actual f**k....!!??" for mechanical accuracy (meaning, shooter input eliminated or significantly mitigated) in particular, exacerbated by Smith's unwillingness to define what "It's in-spec..." means when they return somebody's blaster, unaltered, after having sent it in. BUT....I also benched the things and never phoned it in by only doing it once and calling it "data."

I'm picking up a new-new M&P9fs tomorrow (Thing3); I'm told that it's so fresh off the line that it's still got amniotic fluid on it. It's coming with a DCAEK installed, is getting a set of Warrens slapped on it, and taken to the range pretty much immediately. I'm interested to see what happens, and am prepared to get a fitted barrel put in it IF it sandblasts instead of shoots. Thing2's slide is off having a new-new factory barrel chosen for it; same standards apply.

I've decided upon what my desired endstate is, and I'm willing to do what's necessary to achieve that desired endstate, because the costs of M&P+DCAEK+SL barrel is close enough to HK anything+sights....or Glock anything+sights+the grip work and jewjaws I'd want done to make it NOT be a projectile-throwing freakin brick....that the differences in expense are insignificant to me (that's not hating on Glocks; that's hating on the idea of me and Glocks *shudder*).

We all end up choosing the set of complications we're willing to put up with, period.

Lest we need the reminder: ALL handguns suck. The differences only lie in the details of the manner in which they suck.

[breakingtime91]

JMS, please let us know how the newer full size gun groups, all the recent examples I've seen have shot really well.

[justintime]

I went 10 for 10 with both my new shield and m&p fs I got from a member here on a 4" plate at 30 yards. I also shot a steel sillouette at 100. Only issue is the shield shoots a bit high and has a horrible trigger lol. Some time this month I'm going to grab a compact and see how it shoots.