SIG Pictures.

[Suvorov]

Sigh….sadly, the aviation community is very much a case of the blind leading the blind. Our pistol “coaches” are an E4-E5 (occasionally an E3) who a)shot expert on the rifle range b) can be spared from their daily duties, and c) we want to promote/retain so we use the position as a good deal. The actual coaches course is a week of half day classes explaining the fundamentals of marksmanship and showing examples of sight picture/sight alignment but mostly explaining the course of fire.

MY transition course was said E4 asking if I remembered the difference between a tactical and emergency reload.

Sounds like the US Army Armor community sadly 😐

Despite all the controversy, I do like the M17/M18 but the sad fact remains, the DOD attempted to solve a training problem with hardware. While the MHS may be an easier gun for the average GI to shoot than the M9, a good training on the M9 would have yielded better results and most likely been cheaper.

I have a commercial M17 but would love an actual one. AFAIK real M18s are the only ones still available.

[HCM]

Sounds like the US Army Armor community sadly 😐

Despite all the controversy, I do like the M17/M18 but the sad fact remains, the DOD attempted to solve a training problem with hardware. While the MHS may be an easier gun for the average GI to shoot than the M9, a good training on the M9 would have yielded better results and most likely been cheaper.

I have a commercial M17 but would love an actual one. AFAIK real M18s are the only ones still available.

I’m a beretta fan but the “old and busted” M9’s with multiple rebuilds using third party parts I’ve seen in USAF use needed to be replaced one way or another.

Then there’s the generational factor.

To quote Queen Latifah “we ain’t robbing stagecoaches, we need something we can set it off with.”

What are the odds of good training being provided to the majority of users ? Probably pretty low.

If they had to buy new guns anyway, they are buying for the next 10, 15, 20 m, 25 years. You need to “future proof” those guns to the extent possible. The future is pistol optics. If there’s one thing the beretta 92 series sucks at, it’s accommodating optics.

[Suvorov]

I’m a beretta fan but the “old and busted” M9’s with multiple rebuilds using third party parts I’ve seen in USAF use needed to be replaced one way or another.

Then there’s the generational factor.

To quote Queen Latifah “we ain’t robbing stagecoaches, we need something we can set it off with.”

What are the odds of good training being provided to the majority of users ? Probably pretty low.

If they had to buy new guns anyway, they are buying for the next 10, 15, 20 m, 25 years. You need to “future proof” those guns to the extent possible. The future is pistol optics. If there’s one thing the beretta 92 series sucks at, it’s accommodating optics.

All good and legitimate points and yet one of my greatest disappointments of my Army career was the lip service (and my inability to influence in any meaningful way) paid to pistol marksmanship. I suppose if all you are ever going to do is the bare minimum, then the M17/18 or better yet a Glock is the best option for the general soldier in the 21st century.

[HCM]

All good and legitimate points and yet one of my greatest disappointments of my Army career was the lip service (and my inability to influence in any meaningful way) paid to pistol marksmanship. I suppose if all you are ever going to do is the bare minimum, then the M17/18 or better yet a Glock is the best option for the general soldier in the 21st century.

The only two issues with Glock as a general issue military sidearm are 1) pulling the trigger for disassembling is problematic for cops, so I’d have concerns about 18/19 year olds; 2) the logic of the MHS having a manual safety because everything else in inventory has a safety is sound but all the manual safeties for Glocks are wonky.

[Joe in PNG]

I keep trying to post a photo of my P239...

Nope, still won't.

[jeep45238]

I keep trying to post a photo of my P239...

Nope, still won't.

I've had excellent success using imgbb - free and works with the forum.

[theJanitor]

So good it almost shoots itself

[Joe in PNG]

I keep trying to post a photo of my P239...

Nope, still won't.

[WobblyPossum]

So good it almost shoots itself

Wait a minute…

[theJanitor]

Wait a minute…