Who has a defense attorney already picked out?

[Lester Polfus]

Over on another thread here, I started talking about the legal costs of being involved in a self defense event.

Rather than hijack that thread further, I thought I'd move it over to here.

I started it off with:

"There are many reasons why I quit carrying custom 1911's and started carrying Glocks, but this isn't one of them.

I've had the pleasure of attending a gun school where one of the instructors was a County DA for many years, then became a defense attorney. One of the first things I asked him for was a business card. Then I asked questions about the cost of a legal defense.

His estimate for a competent legal defense in an "uncomplicated" even, to get you to the point where a grand jury comes back with "no true bill" was $15K to $30K. When you are talking numbers like that, the line item for "gun" isn't that significant, whether it is a custom 1911 or a ratty old Glock.

When I asked about how much a trial, with things like independent forensics examiners and dueling expert witnesses, might cost, the answer was "As much money as you have, and if you don't start out with at least a half million, you should probably just take a plea deal."

Again, if I'm sitting there considering whether to 1) roll the dice on a jury trial, where the BEST outcome is I will be penniless at the end or 2) Take a plea to some kind of charge where I might do a two or three year stretch, and get out before my kids forget what I look like and my wife has to sell the house, the gun is gonna be the last thing on my mind.

That's before we talk about civil stuff. "

I realized I had that conversation with the lawyer almost ten years ago (so adjust for inflation accordingly) and that since then I've moved to a different state, albeit one that borders the original.

So it's time to revisit my legal defense plan. I think the first thing I'm going to do is email the first guy, and find out if he practices in this state. If not hopefully he can recomend one.

I'm willing to spend thousands of dollars on guns, ammo, holsters, training classes and etc. I think it would be smart for me to spend a couple hundred bucks for an hour of the new lawyers time, both to see him or her face to face, to get a feel if this is someone I want to trust with my life, and to ask some questions.

For example, it was pointed out in the other thread that many states have laws shielding people who act in self defense from civil liability. I'm actually ignorant of whether my new state has that. I can google it, but I'd also like to know what it MEANS. Has it been tested? Is there case law? Are there exceptions? Will it cost me a couple thousand dollars of a lawyers time to even invoke the protection?

As a cop, the legal aftermath of a use of force was in many ways more frightening than the actual fight, because it was more drawn out and I felt like I had less control. But I at least had the city picking up the tab for the lawyers, and the benefit of acting under the color of the law.

As Joe Blow Private Citizen? I have neither of those things. My wife and I do pretty well, but every penny we have could be gone in a matter of months during a criminal trial.

It seems like the immediate aftermath of a shooting or similar event is exactly the wrong time to pick out your legal counsel.

I'm curious if anybody here has gone through this process. How did you select an attorney? Did you meet with attorney before hand? if so, what questions did you ask?

[jrm]

I can't see why $15k would get racked up before a "true bill". What are you getting for that $15k? Is there much more than advice to keep your mouth shut and maybe a bond or preliminary hearing? I can see things getting pricey after indictment or of course in a civil case but I'm not seeing it pre-indictment.

[Lester Polfus]

I can't see why $15k would get racked up before a "true bill". What are you getting for that $15k? Is there much more than advice to keep your mouth shut and maybe a bond or preliminary hearing? I can see things getting pricey after indictment or of course in a civil case but I'm not seeing it pre-indictment.

Dunno. I'm not an attorney.

[Don Gwinn]

Illinois is one of those states with a civil liability shield, often cited when people bring up the idea of "adding Castle Doctrine" or "adding Stand Your Ground" (we also have no "duty to retreat" in our self-defense law, so those are generally considered unnecessary here.) But I'm not aware of any case law that further clarifies that shield. My question about it has been (and I guess I'd better get moving on getting an answer!) whether there's any good guidance on what activates that defense. For instance, if I've shot an attacker, and the DA has declined to bring charges, is that enough evidence that I acted in self-defense to activate my protection against civil suits? Or am I going to have to be sued and claim my civil immunity--and maybe even go to a trial and raise it as a defense? I can't claim to be sure.

[Don Gwinn]

I can't see why $15k would get racked up before a "true bill". What are you getting for that $15k? Is there much more than advice to keep your mouth shut and maybe a bond or preliminary hearing? I can see things getting pricey after indictment or of course in a civil case but I'm not seeing it pre-indictment.

Doesn't "true bill" or "no true bill" imply that you've been through a grand jury? That would imply investigation, depositions, motions, etc.

[Tamara]

I have picked out the person who will pick out my attorney, should I need one. I even tested the system once already.

[Dagga Boy]

Yes I have one in case of "Plan B". Plan A is to do whatever it takes to not need Plan B. Others differ with me, and that is fine as this is another one of the topics I have become agnostic on. You want to have an attorney call 9-11 for you, rock on.

[Tamara]

You want to have an attorney call 9-11 for you, rock on.

Nobody has suggested anything anywhere close to that in this thread, dude.

There's a country mile between kooky stuff like having an "Adnarim" flash card to read to the cops after you've had your lawyer call 911, and just knowing who you were going to call if you were in danger of getting Zimmerman-ed.

[TR675]

Doesn't "true bill" or "no true bill" imply that you've been through a grand jury? That would imply investigation, depositions, motions, etc.

It does, and not really. Every state has different proceduresm but here most of the heavy lifting is done after the grand jury indicts, although like with anything if you're willing to pay an attorney to go all out ahead of time you can spend some serious coin. It can pay dividends though. A local prominent person just had charges no-billed after his attorneys presented a packet to the grand jury that included video of his lady friend throwing herself out of a moving car.

[TheTrevor]

I have picked out the person who will pick out my attorney, should I need one.

This is my plan as well. I have a close relative who has a distinguished career spent in federal and state law enforcement and is a lawyer as well. My wife has instructions to make that call first if I'm ever detained after a "critical dynamic incident".