Just when you thought that IDPA was done with the stupid ideas...

[trailrunner]

I'm a bit of an outsider on this, but making someone sign rules of conduct, including how they dress and what they can say about the organization, strikes me as a bit overbearing, and also a bit creepy. Am I going to a shooting match, or the country club? And making me promise to never say anything bad about the organization? Really? What are they afraid of?

I've done other non-shooting competitions, such as bike races and triathlons, and I've organized and promoted these events. Signing an injury waiver is fine, but I would never force my participants to agree to a restriction on speech. If any racer got too mouthy, especially with one of my officials, we could have him removed from the race, and we could report his conduct to the licensing officials. Other than that, they were free to say whatever they wanted to say about my event, good or bad.

[jetfire]

I just had a thought, does this mean that because of the "no vulgar stuff" rule, IDPA won't allow a Spike's Tactical Team to shoot their matches?

[Mr_White]

IDPA does not market itself as a realistic gun game.

a shooting sport that simulates self-defense scenarios and real life encounters

1.1.5. Provide shooters with practical and realistic courses of fire, and test skills that could be required to survive life-threatening encounters

IDPA says these are realistic courses of fire. That is not false as some of these COF are based on actual incidents

It seems like you are sometimes saying IDPA doesn't say it is realistic, but at other times you do, and IDPA clearly appears to say it's realistic based on its published statements.

What am I missing here?

[Mr_White]

I would appreciate it if we dialed down the anti-IDPA rhetoric
...
If you want to suggest that IDPA needs to change certain things, then just do that in a positive manner
...
We have the same goal here and we are your brothers in arms, so please give us some respect.

Cody, there is obviously a recurring dynamic in these threads where you defend IDPA against everyone or almost everyone.

You note that many people here don't seem to respect IDPA.

Maybe I am going out on a limb here, but I suspect that some of us may feel disrespected by IDPA. Many people have given respectful voice to our constructive suggestions. Mine weren't just ignored. IDPA clarified that what I wanted absolutely would not be allowed. Joyce printed that 'take or leave it, we heard you and we don't care' message in the recent Tactical Journal. Despite the platitudes about listening to the membership, I think they've made their actual position much clearer through their actions.

To the point of the discussion at hand, I think the document posted comes across as disrespectful to the competitors required to sign in the circumstances in which it's being used.

What do you think people are going to do about that? We are going to express our negative opinions. In light of IDPA's apparent lack of interest in listening to its members and prospective members, we are going to express those opinions somewhere other than IDPA's suggestion box. That's how it works.

If you want IDPA to get more respect, maybe they need to do a better job earning it. They could start by listening.

[Mr_White]

IDPA Indoor Nationals Match Participant Code of Conduct
1.I will follow all of the safety rules of IDPA and Smith & Wesson.
2.I will follow all commands and instructions of the Match Director, Safety Officers, and any official representative of Smith & Wesson.
3.I have read and will abide by the rules in the current IDPA rulebook.
4.Prior to and during the match, I will refrain from the use of alcohol, substances, or medications that may negatively impact my ability to participate safely in the match or that may impact the safety of other match participants or bystanders.
5.I will not communicate with others in a threatening, harassing or abusive manner, and will not engage in the use of off-color remarks and jokes or profanity during the course of my participation in the match. I will not physically touch another person participating in an IDPA event without their consent unless it is necessary to address an immediate safety issue.
6.I will treat all match participants with respect. I will not participate in any discriminatory actions or behavior against others for any reason, including, but not limited to, their IDPA classification, shooting abilities, race, sex, religion, age, disability or national origin.
7.I will represent my sport in a professional manner through my behavior and dress, in accordance with the standards established by the Match Director and Smith & Wesson.
8.I will refrain from disparagement or inappropriate criticism of IDPA or other shooting sports, their officials, and rules of match competition.
9.I will always be a champion for IDPA and promote IDPA in the best light possible.
10.I understand that the failure to follow this Code of Conduct or any other commands or instructions of the Match Director, any Safety Officers, or any official representative of Smith & Wesson may result in my disqualification or exclusion from participation in the IDPA Indoor Nationals at the sole discretion of Smith & Wesson, and may also result in the revocation of my IDPA membership.



SIGNED UNDER THE PAINS AND PENALTIES OF PERJURY THIS ____ day of February, 2014.

Which puts them a decade ahead of the current rule set.


(Sorry, cclaxton, that was a low jab at the sport. It's just that the current rule set makes it more like the Nineties version of Zoot Shooters, rather than Real Street™ like it markets itself to be.)

That is a fair criticism, and one in which I agree. Maybe you have heard this saying before: Change is not a process for the impatient. Barbara Reinhold.
But sometimes the "tried and true" ways are worth knowing.
Cody

I don't know, but to my untrained eye it looks to me like you could be in violation of 8 and 9. Prepare for the PAINS AND PENALTIES OF PERJURY!

So...what are the PAINS AND PENALTIES of perjury, in the context of an IDPA document?

[gtmtnbiker98]

And exactly why would you have a problem following this code of conduct? What is it that you want to do that this code prohibits? Or is it just the idea that there is a code?
Cody

Truthfully? The Perjury statement is a damn joke. It's a pistol game, not a tax return or grand jury testimony.

[_JD_]

I don't know, but to my untrained eye it looks to me like you could be in violation of 8 and 9. Prepare for the PAINS AND PENALTIES OF PERJURY!

So...what are the PAINS AND PENALTIES of perjury, in the context of an IDPA document?

They take your patch off your vest and stop sending you the "Tactical Journal?"

Sent via Tapatalk and still using real words.

[cclaxton]

It seems like you are sometimes saying IDPA doesn't say it is realistic, but at other times you do, and IDPA clearly appears to say it's realistic based on its published statements. What am I missing here?

They are realistic COURSES OF FIRE, not a realist GUN GAME. A COF is just that...a COF which is only a part of the sport. IDPA tries to make the COF realistic, as much as is possible for limited directions that bullets may fly and within the constraints of operating a safe range. A "realistic gun game" is completely over-stating what IDPA has stated and completely over-states the game itself. IDPA is not trying to be a realistic gun game. IDPA specifically describes the game as a SIMULATION, and says that it "tests skills that could be required to survive a life threatening situation."

It TESTS SKILLS in a competition setting. In order for people to improve their skills, they have to work on the most fundamental SKILLS for practical shooting: Grip, trigger control, sighting, target identification, using cover, using concealment, shooting while moving, etc.

There is a significant difference. As members of the shooting community and industry, we should be supporting IDPA AND helping it to improve. Ridiculing it and trying to redefine it in negative terms in order to attack it only serves to hurt the organization. Respectful suggestions to improve the sport are welcome....really.
Cody

[john556]

I just had a thought, does this mean that because of the "no vulgar stuff" rule, IDPA won't allow a Spike's Tactical Team to shoot their matches?

You win.

[littlejerry]

[QUOTE=cclaxton;199518]IDPA does not market itself as a realistic gun game. From the IDPA web site:
[COLOR=#363636][FONT=Helvetica Neue]The International Defensive Pistol Association (IDPA) is the governing body of a shooting sport that simulates self-defense scenarios and real life encounters.


So what about "simulates self defense scenarios and real life encounters" doesn't sound like realistic gun game to you?