Just when you thought that IDPA was done with the stupid ideas...

[TheTrevor]

The no-charging-of-luminescent-sights rule is straight-up discrimination against HK, IMHO. Who else is shipping guns with luminescent sights as standard equipment?

[JV_]

I thought Beretta had them too.

[john556]

What are the chances of the sights being charged while they sit in a holster all day? HK is discirminating against HK by putting those things they claim are pistol sights on $900 guns.

[cclaxton]

Since they use it to falsely market themselves as the "realistic" gun-game. If they'd just drop the "D" in their name, they'd not have to keep up the riduculous pretense. They could just go with "Here's our rules, because **** you, THAT'S why....!" and be completely legit in the decision, because it'd be infinitely more honest.

IDPA does not market itself as a realistic gun game. From the IDPA web site:
The International Defensive Pistol Association (IDPA) is the governing body of a shooting sport that simulates self-defense scenarios and real life encounters. The organization now boasts membership of more than 20,000, including members in 50 foreign countries. One of the unique facets of this sport is that it is geared toward the new or average shooter, yet is fun, challenging and rewarding for the experienced shooter. The founders developed the sport so that practical gear and practical guns may be used competitively. An interested person can spend a minimal amount on equipment and still be competitive. The main goal is to test the skill and ability of the individual, not equipment or gamesmanship.

The Fundamental Principles are a guide to all members.
1.1.1. Promote safe and proficient use of firearms and equipment suitable for concealed carry self-defense.
1.1.2. Offer a practical shooting sport encouraging competitors to develop skills and fellowship with like-minded shooters.
1.1.3. Provide a level playing field for all competitors that solely tests the skill and ability of each individual, not their equipment.
1.1.4. Provide separate divisions for equipment and classifications for shooters, such that firearms with similar characteristics are grouped together and people with similar skills compete against each other.
1.1.5. Provide shooters with practical and realistic courses of fire, and test skills that could be required to survive life-threatening encounters.
1.1.6. Strongly encourage all IDPA members to support our sponsors when making purchases of equipment and accessories. Industry sponsors have been instrumental in IDPA’s success at all levels including Club, State, Regional, National, and International levels.
1.1.7. Develop and maintain an infrastructure that will allow IDPA to be responsive to our shooters. While IDPA can never be all things to all people, respectful constructive suggestions from our members, which follow IDPA Fundamental Principles, will always be welcome.

IDPA says these are realistic courses of fire. That is not false as some of these COF are based on actual incidents, and, except for "classifier" stages are intended to SIMULATE a life threatening situation in a venue that has ranges that limit the directions bullets may go and be done so in a safe manner. The only realistic gun game I can think of would involve force-on-force simunitions training, and even that has it's drawbacks (facial expressions covered up by masks).

I would appreciate it if we dialed down the anti-IDPA rhetoric....IDPA helps beginner and average shooters get into a sport that improves their skills and gun-handling and introduces them to cover and concealment and non-threats and movement and moving targets. That is a good thing, or would you rather tell them to stand at a stall in a range and practice shooting a single target all day? Are there better ways to learn these skills? Sure. Are beginners and average shooters going to pay for them and feel comfortable attending them?...Not many.

We have the same goal here and we are your brothers in arms, so please give us some respect.
Cody

[cclaxton]

I'm damn near close to dropping my membership and canceling our club's affiliation.

Did you guys catch the Code of Conduct Sections of the new rule book?


03.22. IDPA Shooter Responsibilities and Code of Conduct
By shooting IDPA Matches, I agree to the following:
3.22.1. I understand that it is a privilege, and not a right, to be an IDPA Shooter.
3.22.2. I will follow all of the safety rules of IDPA and the host range. The safety of the shooters, match officials, and bystanders shall always be my primary objective.
3.22.3. Prior to and during a match, I will refrain from the use of alcohol, substances, or medications that may negatively impact my ability to shoot safely.
3.22.4. I will maintain a current IDPA membership after my first match.
3.22.5. I will maintain an accurate Classification by shooting a Classifier at least every 12 months. (Unless a Master or Distinguished Master Classification is attained, or a Match Performance Promotion has occurred in the last 12 months.)
3.22.6. I recognize that it is my responsibility to maintain a working knowledge of the current IDPA rulebook.
3.22.7. I will adhere to the IDPA purpose and principles and will not willfully break any IDPA rule.
3.22.8. I will listen carefully and refrain from talking during shooters’ briefings and stage briefings.
3.22.9. I understand it is my responsibility to be ready to shoot when called to the line.
3.22.10. I understand it is my duty to help reset stages between shooters unless I am the current shooter, the on-deck shooter or have just finished shooting.
3.22.11. I will not communicate with others in a threatening, harassing, or abusive manner.
3.22.12. It is my responsibility to check my match scores within the verification period to see that they are correct.
3.22.13. It is my responsibility to check my Classifications in the on-line database to verify that they are correct and to initiate corrective action if they are not correct.
3.22.14. If I have a question or an issue, my first contact is with the CSO at the match, then the MD, then the AC, then IDPA HQ.
3.22.15. I understand that violations of these responsibilities and code of conduct may result in my disqualification from a match, and/or revocation of my IDPA membership


The S&W oath, decree, or whatever it is isn't too far off from this.

And exactly why would you have a problem following this code of conduct? What is it that you want to do that this code prohibits? Or is it just the idea that there is a code?
Cody

[_JD_]

We have the same goal here and we are your brothers in arms, so please give us some respect.
Cody

With all due respect,

US? What us? I think you mean "You" there are plenty us here in this thread and other threads that are IDPA members that are simply sharing our feelings of being...disenfranchised? Or otherwise unhappy with the direction of IDPA. That's it. It's not like we're standing outside the gate of your club with signs saying "USPSA MATCH THIS WAY" with an arrow pointing down the road.

[orionz06]

"Simulates self defense scenarios and real life encounters" sounds an awful lot like an attempt at a realistic gun game.




I think dues paying members can say what they wish. It's not anti-IDPA, it's I wish IDPA made more sense that a drunk uncle at the reunion.

[_JD_]

And exactly why would you have a problem following this code of conduct? What is it that you want to do that this code prohibits? Or is it just the idea that there is a code?
Cody

It's multiple things.

I think that the required membership thing is bogus, at least for level 1/local matches. I know a lot of shooters that will stop shooting should that be enforced at the local level and they'll go to our USPSA matches and be welcomed with open arms.

I think it's bunk that if a guy is laid up for whatever reason and doesn't shoot a classier that be can have his membership canceled.

I think that overall IDPA is getting a little too tightly wound.

We're grown men and women and we can figure out that guns, drugs, and alcohol don't mix. What's next? A breathalyzer at sign in?


We get it, you like IDPA. I do to for the most part but if you don't like the content of a thread that you didn't start, don't participate. Or at least don't treat it like defending IDPA is your cross to bear.

[ToddG]

What are the chances of the sights being charged while they sit in a holster all day? HK is discirminating against HK by putting those things they claim are pistol sights on $900 guns.

Hello Real World, please meet Purely Competitive Sport.

[PPGMD]

This is a NATIONAL IDPA SANCTIONED MATCH, and we should expect people to show good behavior, be respectful, non-critical, and polite. I have no problem signing this Code of Conduct. And, I expect all my fellow competitors to follow it as well. Now, it is always possible if I screw up a stage that I might use the f-word or the s-word and the SO might overhear it. I would expect to get a warning rather than an expulsion, but I have now been warned it could be more severe. This Code also is also created to shield S&W from legal liability should someone behave badly and the victim or perpetrator sue S&W or IDPA.

I would encourage you to think about what you are really proposing: To do away with a Code of Conduct and allow disrespectful and rude behavior and criticizing a sport at a National event of which you are a participant....that alternative makes no sense.

I've shot a number of state, area, and national matches. I don't remember ever signing anything like that. Typically I just sign a waiver/range rules. At no time have I agreed to not criticize the sport, not to curse, or any of the other over the top rules in that document.

And you seem to think that doing away with this would turn it into a match where we will pinch women's butts, and grab their boobs. But that isn't the case.

It's not like we're standing outside the gate of your club with signs saying "USPSA MATCH THIS WAY" with an arrow pointing down the road.

That is a good idea. I need to find a sign shop.