HK Striker Fired

[tomr]

I am typing this while riding a train that's going 250 km/h. So, while this is a drift, I'll get back in my lane pronto. Out of those 20 cases, not a single one while holstering a hammer-down type of pistol, hmmmm....


So, who is doing a torture test on this one?

While a small data base, your point is intriguing. Surprising to, was the higher relative number of 1911s while holstering. Do we know anything about this list? Presumably those 1911 shooters were being trained to put the safety on and then holster. Did they fail to do this? Did the act of holstering somehow knock off the safeties?

[tomr]

While a small data base, your point is intriguing. Surprising to, was the higher relative number of 1911s while holstering. Do we know anything about this list? Presumably those 1911 shooters were being trained to put the safety on and then holster. Did they fail to do this? Did the act of holstering somehow knock off the safeties?

Looking again, (and checking myself), 5 of 7 holstering failures were with 1911s. Again, whats up with that? But, if I understand this bit of topic drift to the relative safety of striker vs hammered pistols, particularly among those who appendix carry, the concern is holstering as distinct from drawing - am I right? How come there was so few of those, with striker fired guns?

[Rich]

Operator manual is up: http://www.hk-usa.com/-images/shared...2005282014.pdf

Doesn't seem like there will be a way to prevent the striker from moving, the indicator in the back is probably visual only. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Would a safety make a difference in packing a SFP. I know I would rather IWB cry a M&P with Safety than a standard M&P.

[DannyZRC]

The incidence of 1911s with 3.5# triggers is non-trivial.

If those 1911s were all Para LDAs, I don't think there would be too much argument that at least some of those oopsies would have been much quieter and less reportable.

Also, re the linked stats thread from frontsight... without knowing at least the representation of all those various AD'd pistols in the whole student body, there isn't a lot you can infer from just the accident reports.

[Crow Hunter]

My take away from reading the data is that short light triggers are the problem. Whether it is on a 1911 without a safety engaged, Sig that isn't decocked correctly, Glock with a modified trigger, XD, etc.

It would also be really cool to know the total number of each gun that was used period.

If 50,000 units design Y were used with 7 NDs and only 200 of design X were used with 3 NDs, it would suggest to me that design Y was "more safe" even though it had more total NDs because the percentage of NDs was so much lower.

Of course it could also be construed as design X attracts people predisposed to have NDs.

[GJM]

My take away from reading the data is that short light triggers are the problem. Whether it is on a 1911 without a safety engaged, Sig that isn't decocked correctly, Glock with a modified trigger, XD, etc.

It would also be really cool to know the total number of each gun that was used period.

If 50,000 units design Y were used with 7 NDs and only 200 of design X were used with 3 NDs, it would suggest to me that design Y was "more safe" even though it had more total NDs because the percentage of NDs was so much lower.

Of course it could also be construed as design X attracts people predisposed to have NDs.

Interesting theory -- just not supported by the Front Sight data. All three Sig ND's involved students there shooting themselves DRAWING. Since a Sig DA trigger is heavier/longer than a LEM, it kind of undermines the long, heavy trigger as savior theory?

Without knowing anything of their actual statistics, I would bet that Glock pistols were far and away the most prevalent there. I was amazed how few Glock incidents there were, compared to what I would have expected.

[joshs]

All three Sig ND's involved students there shooting themselves DRAWING. Since a Sig DA trigger is heavier/longer than a LEM, it kind of undermines the long, heavy trigger as savior theory?

Are you just assuming that the guns were properly decocked? I spend quite a lot of time on a busy public range, and I often see TDA users who holster and draw without decocking.

[Crow Hunter]

Interesting theory -- just not supported by the Front Sight data. All three Sig ND's involved students there shooting themselves DRAWING. Since a Sig DA trigger is heavier/longer than a LEM, it kind of undermines the long, heavy trigger as savior theory?

Without knowing anything of their actual statistics, I would bet that Glock pistols were far and away the most prevalent there. I was amazed how few Glock incidents there were, compared to what I would have expected.

Actually, if you read the actual "AARs" of the incidents, I think at least 2, if not all 3 of the Sig incidents were because of students that forgot to decock before holstering and when drawing placed their fingers on the triggers expecting the DA resistance and instead got a BOOM. (One of them was a LEO)

Which lends credence to Nyeti's LEM/"street trigger" assertion IMHO.

Now my wife was discussing what we were going to be having for supper at the time I was reading it last night, so I might not have read them all correctly.

I was actually expecting there to be more Glocks as well. Both from their ubitquity and the ease of which any bubba can "improve" their triggers by lightening it as much as possible with a 3/32 punch and some low cost aftermarket parts.

[Tamara]

Are you just assuming that the guns were properly decocked?

I'd feel fairly comfortable betting a fiver that they weren't

[TheTrevor]

I'd feel fairly comfortable betting a fiver that they weren't

I didn't carry over the gun model to my analysis, but yeah, all three of the failure-to-decock NDs were SIGs.