Originally Posted by SeriousStudent
If only we had someone on the forum with ties to D Platoon who could tell us more about their shotgun stuff....
If only we had someone on the forum with ties to D Platoon who could tell us more about their shotgun stuff....
yes... If only....
I've been hoping nyeti would chime in. HiTS is local so I'm watching for a shotgun course - the course calendar on the website doesn't seem to be working though...
I lit the Bat Signal. Hopefully they see it over there at Gotham City.
I got a call from the Bat Phone. Here's the drills, copied down from an old mimeo sheet (so you know it's authentic):
LAPD D Platoon Shotgun Qualification
Ammo: Requires two slug rounds, eleven 00 Buck rounds (9-pellet loads).
Scoring: Total possible points = 200. Divide the number of points by 2. Maximum possible score = 100 percent.
1st Phase: Two slugs at 25 yards. Start from low ready, fire 1 shot at center of mass in 2.5 seconds. Repeat. Hits in the 9 or 10 ring = 10 points. Any other hit on target equals 5 points. 20 points are possible for this phase.
2nd Phase: Two 00 Buck rounds at 15 yards. Fire 1 shot in 2 seconds. Repeat. This totals 18 pellets. Any hit in the 9 or 10 ring equals 2 points. Any other hit on target equals 1 point. Approximately 30 points on this stage. Fifteen yards is an estimate with Remington 870.
3rd Phase: Two 00 Buck rounds at 10 yards. Fire 1 shot in 2 seconds. Repeat. This totals 18 pellets. Approximately 33 points possible on this phase.
4th Phase: Two 00 Buck rounds at 7 yards. Fire 1 shot in 1.5 seconds. Repeat. This totals 18 pellets. 36 points possible on this phase.
5th Phase: Two 00 Buck rounds at 5 yards. Fire 2 rounds in 2 seconds. This totals 18 pellets. 36 points possible on this phase.
6th Phase: Three 00 Buck rounds at 3 yards. Failure Drill. Start from an under arm assault position. Fire one pair center of mass, assume the shoulder-sighted stance and fire one head shot, in three seconds. Body shots scored as above, 36 points possible. Head shot is scored one point for each pellet which strikes the head. 45 possible points on this phase.
Total points possible for the course is approximately 200 divided by 2 = score in percentile.
Passing score = 90 percent, with all projectiles on the target.
I was asked to point out that this was what they were shooting in the 1980's. It's entirely possible there have made changes to this. I'm Alfred, not Batman, so I'm just passing along what I wrote down.
Also, HiTS tentatively have a shotgun class planned for this spring, but with no date carved in stone at this time. I'll be happy to take that class again, I got a lot out of it the last time. I'm also aching to try the 85-year-old Winchester Model 12 that Malamute convinced me to buy. It's all ready to go now, and runs like a champ.
Darryl mentioned that they are going to do some one-day classes that focus very heavily on marksmanship this spring. These would be for anyone, from a beginner to a very experienced shooter. They would be very focused on trigger work.
And the course calendar on their website will be updated soon, they are working on that. I do not have a definition of "soon" however, both of them stay really busy.
This is the qualification course used in the GALEFI Shotgun Instructor course. I have not attended this course as I took a 40 hour course at GPSTC.
QUALIFICATION COURSE
Title: 25 Round Shotgun Qualification Course w/time limits
Date Written: March 2, 2009 Revised: March 31, 2012
Rounds: 28 (only 25 will be fired) Distance: 25, 15, 10, 7 and 5 Yards
Passing Score: 94% for firearms instructors, 80% for all others
Scoring: Slug – 4 points for each valid hit
00 Buck (8 or 9 pellet)* – ˝ point per valid hit
*If the agency only authorizes buckshot, the 18 rounds fired at the 10, 7 and 5 yard line stages will be buckshot. Slugs will always be fired from the 25 and 15 yard lines.
Fundamentals: This course of fire incorporates the fundamentals of shotgun operation and marksmanship including loading, putting the shotgun into operation, firing from different positions, tactical reloading (topping off/put back what you shoot), downloading and unloading. Additionally, officers will use good tactical fundamentals such as verbal commands, scanning, use of cover and movement.
Objectives: This course of fire was designed to better evaluate an officer’s ability to –
● Load the shotgun in a safe manner;
● Access the weapon from the vehicle storage rack (if applicable);
● Place the shotgun into operation;
● Effectively put rounds on target;
● Fire the shotgun from realistic shooting positions including on the move;
● Keep the shotgun in a “ready to fight” condition by continuously topping off the
● Engage threats from various angles while pivoting and on the move;
● Scan effectively for additional threats;
● Download and unload the shotgun in a safe manner.
Notes: For ease in scoring, it is recommended the course be fired with slug ammunition.
In this course of fire, the term “up” is used as the cue to fire. It should be noted that any cue such as “six” or “deadly threat” can be used as well. The command to fire should
be decided by the instructor based on their agency’s policy.
STAGE ONE – KNEELING FROM COVER 25 Yards 3 Rounds
Preparation: Begin with the shotgun in the condition it is normally transported in on the 30 yard line. This can be either unloaded or “transport condition” as the department’s policy dictates. If spare ammo is not positioned on the weapon, it will be positioned on the body where it can be easily accessed. Instructors are encouraged to have their officers demonstrate their ability to remove the weapon from the storage location in the vehicle if applicable. On the command “gun” or “threat”, the shooters will access their weapon, chamber a round and advance to the 25 yard line where they will cover the threat from the kneeling position using good cover and verbal commands.
On the command “UP”, the shooters will engage the target with 3 rounds, scan while covering the target then top off their magazines. On the command to “advance”, shooters will move to the 15 yard line covering their target. Finger off the trigger – Safety ON
STAGE TWO – OFF HAND 15 Yards 4 Rounds
At the 15 yard line, shooters will engage their targets with 4 rounds in 7 seconds from the standing position on the command “UP”. Shooters will scan for additional threats, cover
the target, top off magazine and move to the 10 yard line when the command “advance” is given. Finger off the trigger – Safety ON.
STAGE THREE – PIVOT & SHOOT 10 Yards 6 Rounds
At the 10 yard line, shooters will demonstrate their ability to engage a target to the side or rear. Instructor will demonstrate the SAFETY CIRCLE and how to keep the muzzle depressed inside it when pivoting. Have shooters face in the desired direction with muzzles fully depressed. On the command “UP”, shooters will (in order of sequence) –
LOOK to identify the threat, Bring the MUZZLE UP to the threat and ENGAGE with ONE round in 3 seconds.
Pivot to the LEFT – fire one round in 3 seconds. Repeat 1X (2 rounds).
Pivot to the RIGHT – fire one round in 3 seconds. Repeat 1X (2 rounds).
Pivot 180 degrees – fire one round 3 seconds. Repeat 1X (2 rounds).
Instructors should have shooters look and pivot BEFORE bringing the muzzle up on target. If you are running a crowded line or working with novice shooters, you can reduce the angle to 45 degrees so all muzzles remain in a safe direction.
STAGE FOUR – SHOOTING ON THE MOVE 10 to 7 Yds. 4 Rounds
Shooters should still be scanning from “low ready” on the 10 yard line. On the command “Advance and Engage” or “UP”, shooters will advance to the 7 yard line while firing two rounds. Once at the 7 yard line, shooters halt, scan and top off magazines. Repeat again for a total of 4 rounds. Instructors should encourage shooters NOT to stop when they shoot - keep the line moving.
Safety ON – Scan – Top off magazine if necessary
STAGE FIVE – CONTROLLED PAIRS w/ Movement 7 Yards
Shooters face threat with shotgun at the low ready position. On the command “UP”, shooters will engage with two rounds then move one step laterally (left or right) as directed in 5 seconds. Scan – cover threat. Repeat twice more for total of six rounds.
On the command “Advance to the Five”, shooters move forward to the 5 yard line.
STAGE SIX – HAMMER DRILL 5 Yards 2 Rounds
Position shooters facing the threat with weapon at “low ready”. On the command “UP”, shooters will fire two rounds in 3 seconds in rapid succession to center mass.
DEMONSTRATE ABILITY TO UNLOAD & DOWNLOAD THE SHOTGUN
The shotgun will have 3 rounds remaining (including one in the chamber). Shooter(s) will demonstrate ability to download to Transport Mode and then unload their shotgun.
If necessary, this evaluation may be conducted off the range with dummy rounds. In that case, only 25 rounds are required for the qualification course.
This skill set is part of the shotgun qualification and must be demonstrated.
Last edited by jlw; 12-29-2013 at 05:08 PM.
I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.
Thank you for posting that, Chief. I'll add that one to my list to try.
Qualification course from GPSTC Shotgun Skills class (24 hours). This is not an instructor level class.
SHOTGUN QUALIFICATION COURSE
AMMUNITION: 5 ROUNDS REDUCED RECOIL SLUGS. 10 ROUNDS REDUCED RECOIL 8 PELLET "00" BUCKSHOT
TARGET: (3) SQT-A1's PER SHOOTER
STAGE 1: 25 YARD LINE - SHOOTER WILL ASSEMBLY AREA LOAD WITH 5 ROUNDS OF SLUGS. SHOOTER WILL MOVE TO COVER AS THE TARGET TURNS AND FIRE 1 ROUND ON ONE TARGET IN 4 SECONDS. REPEAT X 4.
STAGE 2: 25 YARD LINE - SHOOTER WILL COMBAT LOAD 5 ROUNDS OF "00" BUCKSHOT. THE SHOOTER WILL MOVE TO COVER AS THE TARGETS TURN AND FIRE 5 ROUNDS AT 2 TARGETS, WHICH FACE IN RANDOM ORDER FOR 10 SECONDS.
STAGE 3: 15 YARD LINE - SHOOTER WILL LOAD TO GUN BOX READY - THE SHOOTER WILL MOVE TO COVER AS THE TARGETS TURN AND SHOOT (4) FOUR ROUNDS OF "00" BUCKSHOT, THEN COMBAT LOAD AND FIRE ONE (1) ROUND OF "00" BUCKSHOT. A TOTAL OF FIVE (5) ROUNDS WILL BE FIRED ON TWO TARGETS, WHICH WILL FACE IN RANDOM ORDER, FOR A TOTAL OF TEN (10) SECONDS.
SCORING: SLUGS WILL BE SCORED 10 POINTS FOR "A" ZONE HITS AND 5 POINTS FOR HITS OUTSIDE THE "A" ZONE BUT STILL WITHIN THE SCORING AREA. TOTAL POSSIBLE POINTS FOR SLUGS WILL BE 50 POINTS.
"00" BUCKSHOT WILL BE SCORED AS 5 POINTS FOR EACH HIT WITHIN THE SCORING AREA OF THE TARGET. TOTAL. POSSIBLE BUCKSHOT SCORE OF 400 POINTS.
RAW SCORE: 450 POINTS TOTAL
MINIMUM QUALIFYING SCORE: 360 POINTS - 80%
I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.
Here is a course that I wrote for an agency. The customer made it clear that they wanted a course for a very basic skill set. The issued shotguns were cylinder bore 870Ps with bead on a pedestal sights . Only 00 Buck was issued. There was no provision to carry extra ammo; thus, no combat loading was included in the course.
Just to make it personally interesting, I would stuff my rounds in my belt line and combat load every round for the course...
The agency has since adopted patrol rifles and keeps the shotguns loaded with less lethal rounds.
Ammunition: 12 Rounds 00 Buckshot
Target: SQT (2 Per shooter)
Number of Rounds: Primary - 6 (9 pellet 54 or 8 pellet 48)
Secondary – 6 (9 pellet 54 or 8 pellet 48)
Scoring: Body (Either “A” or “B” zone) = 1 point for each pellet
Total Points: 9 Pellet Ammo
-Number of pellets divided by 108 = %
-108 total pellets
-86 in target needed in designated targets for passing score
8 Pellet Ammo
-Number of pellets divided by 96 = %
-96 total pellets
-76 pellets needed in designated targets for passing score
Course of Fire:
15 Yard Line
The shooter will load the shotgun to the “gunbox-ready” condition. On the command to fire, the shooter will fire one round into the primary target and one round into the secondary target in eight seconds and go to a cover position. On the second command to fire, the shooter will fire one round into the primary target and one round into the secondary target in six seconds.
7 Yard Line
The shooter will load the shotgun to the “gunbox-ready” condition. On the command to fire, the shooter will fire one round into the primary target and one round into the secondary target in seven seconds and go to a cover position. On the second command to fire, the shooter will fire one round into the primary target and one round into the secondary target in five seconds.
7 Yard Line
The shooter will load the shotgun to the “gunbox-ready” condition. On the command to fire, the shooter will fire two rounds into the primary target and two rounds into the secondary target in 10 seconds.
I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.
Roger that. I have not shot the course. If I can get my hands on the GPSTC Shotgun Instructor course of fire, I'll post it as well. If has slug shots at 50 yards. The stage starts with the shotgun loaded with 00 Buck, and the shooter has to do an ammo exchange to a slug for each shot. It is run as five strings. If memory serves, there were also slug shots at 25 yards and 00 Buck rounds at 15 and 7 yards.
I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.
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