Frustrating 3-Point Failure To Chamber Jams With A 1911

[JonInWA]

Ok, the title ought to garner some attention. The specifics: While shooting a local IDPA match with my 2006-production (and truly custom-spec'ed for me) Night Custom Talon II, using Winchester White Box Walmart Value Pack and Federal Champion 230 gr ball standard pressure ammunition, with Check-Mate 7 round welded baseplate hybrid feed lipped magazines, I experienced 2 failures to chamber; the cartridges in both case were wedged against the chamber hood at an angle. Both issues occurred at mid-magazine point.

All magazines are brand new, and prior to use were disassembled, cleaned of all cutting oil, and treated with an internal application of Dri-Slide, a dry-film lubricant/anti-corrosive. Tube exteriors were treated with Sentry Solution Tuff Cote. The magazines that I've isolated the failures to both have dimpled metal followers. Magazine springs are all Check-Mate's high-performance springs.

The pistol itself was lubricated on bearing surfaces with TW25B, and the night before the match an additional application of MC2500 oil was applied to the bearing surfaces on top of the TW25B.

The recoil spring on this particular gun are replaced at every 800 round interval, with NHC 20# conventional recoil springs. At this time, it was early in the use cycle of the recoil spring.

My thoughts at this point are either ammunition issues (some variations in bullet set {or, more specifically, setback} were observed in both the WWB and the Federal Champion cartridges, examining the left-over rounds subsequent to the match (I brought 140 rounds, and fired 105).

The previous month. I expended about 110 rounds from my "Gen 2" SIG GSR XO, using the Winchester/Walmart ammunition and the same magazines with flawless results (well, flawless from the gun's operational standpoint-the operator's skill-set still needs some work...).

My tentative thoughts:

1. A flawed magazine/gun match up, with the Check-Mate 7 round magazines and the Nighthawk Talon II (Check-Mate 8 round welded baseplate hybrid feed lip magazines have worked superbly with this pistol);

2. Flawed ammunition, possibly due to reported degradation of generic ammunition quality due to the market needs and plant production limitations, constraining manufacturing production machinery maintenance/quality control.

I also had one failure of the slide to lock back after the last round; when manually checked after the occurrence, it continued to fail to lock back. However, after cleaning, it seemed to lock back without issue, when checked by manually cycling. That failure occurred with a magazine that had Check-Mate's patented dimpled and fully-skirted metal follower, which does not possess the side dimple in the follower tongue that the GI Check-Mate followers have.

I'd be interested in hearing other's thoughts. Until diagnosed and resolved, the Talon II will not be used with the Check-Mate 7 round magazines, but with their 8 rounders....

I have never previously experienced these issues with the Nighthawk Talon II (or with the SIG GSR XO), so having the two issues within a 100 round match are of significant operational concern to me.

Best, Jon

[ToddG]

1911.

[JBP55]

1911.

[Clusterfrack]

When I used to compete with and carry 1911s, I invested a lot of time and money figuring out which mags would work reliably with which guns and ammo. That is one of the things that turned me off of the platform. All I can suggest is try other mags. Tripp Cobramags would be a good place to start.


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[JodyH]

1911.

^^^Came here to post this ^^^
1911's can't live with 'em, can't anchor a boat without 'em.

[SecondsCount]

With the typical issues with a 1911 being magazine related, the Talon II is a 4.25" gun which is going to speed up the feed cycle and magnify this issue.

I would try new magazine springs or different magazines. Tripps are okay but I have had better longevity out of Chip McCormick Power Mags. Remember to fill them up and let them sit for a few days before using to allow the springs to set.

[GJM]

About four or five years ago, I bought a new NH T3 (4.25 barrel). Wouldn't run. Send it back a few times, never could get it to run, and sold it at a substantial loss.

[BLR]

Pictures?

Have you looked at the taper crimp, or lack thereof?

If the problem has just developed, it's not likely the gun. I'd look at the ammo first, because WWB is the cause of huge issues with nice, tight match chambers.

Were the feed lips of the 7 and 8 rounders parallel? Or are those the tapered lip hybrids?

FWIW, and just food for thought, parallel feed lips are a generally bad idea for anything other than mag life. Tapered lips feed much smoother, with less force needed to feed.

[Spr1]

As stated above, the Commander length guns are very sensitive with regard to slide/mag timing.

First, I would seriously question the Checkmate mags.

A very solid set up, especially for a Commander length gun, is the McCormick PowerMag with the guts replaced with Tripp Super7 kits. This yields good feed lip geometry with a stout mag spring. I have no experience with the new flat wire Wilson's, but I would expect them to be a good bet as well.

I am not familiar with the particular spring you referenced, but if it is of conventional design, another option might be to try a Wolff variable rate spring of the same nominal rating.

[farscott]

I want to second the comment about Tripp Super 7 kits. My experience has been that those kits inside of Metalform-made, Colt-marked tubes are the best for shorter 1911s. I also like the kits inside the older Wilson tubes as, in my experience, the Wilson springs in the older Wilson 47-series magazines are not stout enough for my guns.

I was a beta tester for the Wilson +P 47OXC-HV magazine for the Officer's ACP guns as that magazine was designed in response to concerns about slides outrunning magazines. At that time, Wilson was working on the full-size version as well. Based on my very good experience with the 47OXC-HV, the full-size magazine would be a good choice as well.

Something else to compare is how the Checkmate magazines are held in the gun with the issue, compared to the one that is fine. Not all mag catches hold the magazines at the same height and not all magazines have the notches in the same location. You may find that one brand of magazine is feeding the round much lower into the ramp than others do.