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Thread: Texas DPS going to 9mm M&P.

  1. #111
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    It could the first time ever S&W suffered quality problems with barrels, sights, magazine catches, magazine bodies, magazine springs, extractors or some such.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  2. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard View Post
    Now I gotta wonder if this isn't similar to Indiana's gen 3 G17s being "unreliable"
    Which they supposely went to because of all the unreliability with a batch of G22s.

    Unless you're there, you never really know what is actually going on behind the curtain. The one example of wholesale issue gun failure I was involved with, it was genuine, we sent the guns back, they were fixed and returned, end of story.

    Of course, that doesn't count the never-sufficiently-damned floating hand that was featured on a big batch of M-686s we received. My boss and I spent DAYS cleaning up those horrible things so the cadets would have a chance of doing some decent shooting. We got them in just ten days before the firearms portion of their recruit training was to commence; no time to scream bloody murder and send them back.

    We did a lot of screaming, though. And in fact, the revolvers did function... but the DA pull was execrable beyond belief.

    .

  3. #113
    Site Supporter ST911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSP972 View Post
    Unless you're there, you never really know what is actually going on behind the curtain..
    Broader public knowledge would bring the internet to a screaching halt. There aren't enough "B" keys in the world for the b-b-b-buts that would follow.
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  4. #114
    Very Pro Dentist Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSP972 View Post
    Which they supposely went to because of all the unreliability with a batch of G22s.

    Unless you're there, you never really know what is actually going on behind the curtain. The one example of wholesale issue gun failure I was involved with, it was genuine, we sent the guns back, they were fixed and returned, end of story.

    Of course, that doesn't count the never-sufficiently-damned floating hand that was featured on a big batch of M-686s we received. My boss and I spent DAYS cleaning up those horrible things so the cadets would have a chance of doing some decent shooting. We got them in just ten days before the firearms portion of their recruit training was to commence; no time to scream bloody murder and send them back.

    We did a lot of screaming, though. And in fact, the revolvers did function... but the DA pull was execrable beyond belief.

    .

    The issues with the G22s were very, very real. The supposed reliability issues with the replacement G17s is however highly suspect IMHO since we bought our guns from the same batch, and our G17s have run like the proverbial AK47s of legend.

  5. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard View Post
    ... we bought our guns from the same batch, and our G17s have run like the proverbial AK47s of legend.
    Okay. But riddle me this... LSP, LSUPD, and several other state and local agencies here have G22s from that same "batch" as ISP... and they're all "running" like that proverbial AK.

    I don't doubt that ISP's issues were real; they weren't the only agency that had issues- both using WMLs and not using WMLs.

    Its like the late-production Gen3 G19 BTF problem... lots of folks have experienced it and lots of folks... haven't.

    I am not questioning anyone's veracity, pooh-pooing the issues, etc. SOMETHING was going on with the ISP G22s, and SOMETHING was/is going on with those problematic G19s. But what????

    And what about the folks who have reported sudden fleas with their Glock whatever, after several thousands of previously uneventful rounds downrange?

    Key in sinister music here........

    .

  6. #116
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSP972 View Post
    http://www.texastribune.org/2014/04/...over-concerns/

    "Slight movement of less than ten microns…" ???????????????
    I took that to mean that the reporter on this story is as clueless as most reporters are on most stories and was trying to summarize some highly technical information that he/she didn't comprehend and couldn't accurately reproduce.
    3/15/2016

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    I took that to mean that the reporter on this story is as clueless as most reporters are on most stories and was trying to summarize some highly technical information that he/she didn't comprehend and couldn't accurately reproduce.
    Absolutely.

    10 microns? Really. They were measuring this how?

    I liked the explanation of the term micron. So how many people reading it in the US will even really know how large meter is?

    They should have stated that a human hair is roughly 80 microns in diameter. So they are talking about something close to 1/8th the diameter of a human hair.

    Of course, with most of the public, they don't know what a diameter is either....

    It would take a fairly sophisticated setup to actually repeatedly measure a less than 10 micron movement well enough to pass a Gauge R&R.

    Now if someone just wanted to sound intelligent and knowledgeable by saying "micron", that is fairly easy.

    Maybe they meant thousandths?

  8. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    I took that to mean that the reporter on this story is as clueless as most reporters are on most stories and was trying to summarize some highly technical information that he/she didn't comprehend and couldn't accurately reproduce.
    Exactly. My tongue was planted firmly in my cheek.

    .

  9. #119
    Very Pro Dentist Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSP972 View Post
    Okay. But riddle me this... LSP, LSUPD, and several other state and local agencies here have G22s from that same "batch" as ISP... and they're all "running" like that proverbial AK.

    I don't doubt that ISP's issues were real; they weren't the only agency that had issues- both using WMLs and not using WMLs.

    Its like the late-production Gen3 G19 BTF problem... lots of folks have experienced it and lots of folks... haven't.

    I am not questioning anyone's veracity, pooh-pooing the issues, etc. SOMETHING was going on with the ISP G22s, and SOMETHING was/is going on with those problematic G19s. But what????

    And what about the folks who have reported sudden fleas with their Glock whatever, after several thousands of previously uneventful rounds downrange?

    Key in sinister music here........

    .


    Our G22s from that same time frame were a disaster. They didn't want to run, with out without lights. We were not the only folks in that group.

    Taking the sworn strength of the departments I talked to during that time period having issues with G22s it was effecting in the area of 10,000 coppers. These issues were, and are (because some of them are continuing...), well documented.

  10. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard View Post
    These issues were, and are (because some of them are continuing...), well documented.
    I know. Which is what makes it all the more mysterious. Why some, and not all?

    .

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