Opinions on magazine safeties

[vaspence]

I know this has been tossed about a bit before but I'm curious as to why some folks do not like magazine safeties.

I had an M&P 9 that I bought used with a mag safety. I removed it when I installed a DCAEK in the pistol (no reason just figured I'd take it out). After a couple months I was pondering this and had no real reason for removing the safety so I put it back in. I didn't notice any difference in trigger pull or functioning, etc. in over 1800 rounds through the pistol. I know that is an example of one, but I never noticed any mag safety related issues with any 3rd Gen Smiths I owned either.

My question is, if you are a person who would tell a buddy "the first thing is to remove the mag safety", what improvement are you getting from removal or your reasoning behind removal? I realize this will vary from pistol to pistol but am interested in hearing.

[TR675]

Tagged for interest.

I've never understood the "magazine safeties are evil" line of reasoning myself. I can see removing one if they adversely affect reliability, trigger pull, etc. But (for example) I have never heard of an M&P magazine safety failing in any way. I have, however, heard a lot of stories about people launching rounds into walls or other people because they removed the magazine and forgot to unchamber the round. I know that Ayoob has a number of stories of officers whose lives were saved because of magazine safeties on their guns.

Conversely, I've never heard a really good explanation for why they should be removed.

[MEH]

There are pros and cons for having a magazine safety.

If you play any gun games having the mag safety can be a pain in the butt to drop the hammer (yea I know, striker) as you will have to insert an empty mag to accomplish that feat.

Other than that let your personal preference decide.

[Kyle Reese]

Not my cup of tea. I learned to hate mag disconnect safeties on my old P35's.

[JSGlock34]

I think this comes down to the model of the pistol and design of the magazine safety. Some magazine safeties are known for degrading the trigger pull or binding the magazine and preventing it from dropping free. The Browning Hi-Power design was the lightning rod for debating the merits of the magazine safety, to the point that Browning introduced magazines with those clever little mousetrap springs to ensure they dropped free during a reload.

I never had a problem with the magazine safety on my old 3rd Generation S&W 5903, and the magazine safety on the M&P has its merits. No doubt part of S&W's marketing to LEAs is that you are less likely to have a ND while field stripping the firearm when compared to the Glock due to the ability to release the striker without squeezing the trigger. Adding the optional magazine safety makes such an event even less likely.

[KevinB]

I think this comes down to the model of the pistol and design of the magazine safety. Some magazine safeties are known for degrading the trigger pull or binding the magazine and preventing it from dropping free. The Browning Hi-Power design was the lightning rod for debating the merits of the magazine safety...

My hatred spawned from the BHP -- mags did not want to drop free with that stupid plunger in it. Of course the reset when to stupid long.

That and I sometime may want to fire the gun with a mag out of it -- that 0.0001% time it could happen.

I remember years ago a buddy that had some S&W Gen3 guns stashed around his house -- round in the chamber but no mag -- he and his wife carried mags, it was an interesting "safe" storage method for a house with kids.

[SWAT Lt.]

I have revised my position on magazine safeties over the years. I think for the average person the likliehood of needing that one round in the chamber while switching magazines during a gunfight is much, much less likely than the average person failing to properly clear the gun and shooting himself or someone else. I think they are a great idea for novice shooters, and an M&P so equipped makes a great first semi auto.

[cmoore]

They are a real pain in the kitten for competition shooters who have to frequently unload and show clear. This entails pulling the trigger to drop the hammer after the magazine is removed. If a competitor has a mag safety, they have pull out an empty mag and show it to the safety or range officer, insert the empty mag, point the gun at the berm, pull the trigger, remove the mag, and then finally holster their pistol. It's an annoying time waster in the action pistol games.

[Tamara]

Somewhat interesting from an historical standpoint, magazine safeties and loaded chamber indicators both have long histories on autopistols in America and aren't some new invention of lawyer-phobic safety nazis.

Pretty much all of the earliest American pocket autos had one or the other at one time, and it absolutely makes sense when you think that America used to be Revolver Nation. Anybody can tell if a revolver is loaded by glancing at it, and it can be rendered inert by opening the cylinder, but the most common novice error (or non-novice not paying attention error) is to get the order wrong in the whole "remove magazine and then rack slide" thing.

Colt 1903 and 1906? Mag safeties. Savage 1907? LCI. H&R Self-Loading .32? Both. Only the Smith and Remington didn't feature them and they both had "belt-and-suspenders" manual and grip safeties.

As time went by, the Savage dropped the LCI and the H&R dropped the mag safety as unnecessarily complex and unneeded, but I find it interesting that they were around even back then.

[Sal Picante]

They are a real pain in the ass for competition shooters who have to frequently unload and show clear. This entails pulling the trigger to drop the hammer after the magazine is removed. If a competitor has a mag safety, they have pull out an empty mag and show it to the safety or range officer, insert the empty mag, point the gun at the berm, pull the trigger, remove the mag, and then finally holster their pistol. It's an annoying time waster in the action pistol games.

We've had a couple of folks who've rocked the Ruger Sr-series guns and the process has never really bother my or my other RO's...

Dry fire with them in is problematic, tho...