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Thread: Does this meet your safety standard?

  1. #1

    Does this meet your safety standard?

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...ques/#comments

    I was having a disagreement with a friend over the way the firearm was used in this video. I don't think it's appropriate even with the safety checks, especially given the availability of inert training guns. He said he thought it was ok since they had taking several precautions. I am curious to know what people on this board think.
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  2. #2
    We are diminished
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    Absolute no-go. How many times have we seen checked, even verified by a 2nd person, "unloaded" guns go off?

    Remember the infamous DEA guy? After he "cleared" his pistol he showed it to someone else who also confirmed it was empty. Then the DEA promptly shot himself with that safe, double-checked, "unloaded" gun.

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  3. #3
    It made me think of the DEA guy as well. Thanks for your input. I was wondering if I was being too much of a hard ass.
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  4. #4
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToddG View Post
    Absolute no-go.
    I wouldn't go as far to say absolute no-go.

    In the military, you point real guns at each other all the time. Before such, the weapon is checked by multiple people, and everyone is "lined out"....meaning you ensure you have zero live ammunition anywhere on yourself, gear, ect. You're then inspected by the guy next to you, and then by the instructor, PSO, or a member of the CoC. After such, it's been deemed appropriate to conduct training.

    I would say that using a real firearm in this circumstance is unnecessary, however. They could instead use a blue gun, since they don't need an actual firearm to shoot blanks or whatever.
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  5. #5
    We are diminished
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    In the military, you point real guns at each other all the time.
    So your argument seems to be that the military has no unsafe, unwise, inappropriate, or incorrect training practices.

    There is at least one instructor in the industry -- now deceased, unrelated to this issue -- who had I believe multiple students get shot doing H2H/disarm drills with "checked by the instructor and both students" quote-unquote UNLOADED firearms.

    It's simply unnecessary and penny-wise/pound-foolish. Dedicated nonfiring training guns cost money. But they don't cost as much as a student's life.

  6. #6
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToddG View Post
    So your argument seems to be that the military has no unsafe, unwise, inappropriate, or incorrect training practices.
    No, not that, just that the objective is risk mitigation.....not risk elimination.

    Like I said, it's wiser to just use a blue gun if the situation allows...and in this situation, it'd be wiser to do such. However, that isn't always feasible and so I disagree with it being an "absolute no-go."
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  7. #7
    Butters, the d*** shooter Byron's Avatar
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    In the context/setting of the video, it makes absolutely no sense to me. They're in a dedicated training environment, wearing dedicated training attire. There's no reason not to have a dedicated training pistol.

    I would bet they spent more money on any given piece of their attire (whether those finger shoes, gi pants, or rash guard) than it would cost to get one plastic training gun.
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  8. #8
    We are diminished
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    No, not that, just that the objective is risk mitigation.....not risk elimination.
    Why?

    If there is an easy, low-cost, equally effective solution that utterly eliminates the risk why not opt for that?

  9. #9
    Site Supporter Tamara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    I wouldn't go as far to say absolute no-go.

    In the military, you point real guns at each other all the time. Before such, the weapon is checked by multiple people, and everyone is "lined out"....meaning you ensure you have zero live ammunition anywhere on yourself, gear, ect. You're then inspected by the guy next to you, and then by the instructor, PSO, or a member of the CoC. After such, it's been deemed appropriate to conduct training.

    I would say that using a real firearm in this circumstance is unnecessary, however. They could instead use a blue gun, since they don't need an actual firearm to shoot blanks or whatever.
    True.

    Also remember that in the military, you're on the clock and working for a boss who could tell you that you can't take a lunch break until after you charge that machine gun nest, so the whole risk/reward calculus is probably a little skewed.
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  10. #10
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    Given the easy availability of SIRT guns, Blue Guns, etc. I would say it's an ABSOLUTE NO-GO to use a real firearm in scenario based training or demonstration. I'd even say that past describing it as unwise, foolish, stupid, etc. I would say it's IMMORAL to do so and when a live gun is used in this manner and somebody gets shot, it should also be ILLEGAL.
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