QuickClot, Tourniquet, or Both?

[cclaxton]

Just finished my First Aid Class. The instructor told us they are not carrying QuickClot in their trauma kits, but he has heard it is effective in treating trauma in combat situations. He thinks that due to the side-effects they are not ready to put them into action yet. However, internet sources claim that they are effective when a tourniquet cannot be applied, such as the torso, neck, buttocks, and head (but not face due to scaring).

Another good application seems to be for wilderness trauma where getting the trauma victim help may take much more time, or difficult terrain, etc.

So, I am thinking it goes in the med-kit and would only be used when a tourniquet won't work and I can't stop the bleeding with a pressure dressing.

The QuickClot sponges and embedded gauze are considered the current state of the art, not the particles that you pour into the wound. Side effects are thermal heat and potential 2nd degree burns, patient discomfort, scarring, and the quickclot is more difficult to cut out of the wound and clean because it becomes a part of the blood clot in the wound.

Does anyone here have experience with QuickClot for trauma? Any recommendations?

CC

[Dropkick]

Quickclot Gauze is non-thermal, based on my research and recently attending a DARK Angel Class:
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...10-amp-11-2013

It was the old granular powder that caused burned tissue.
As for scarring... Um, any sort of wound that would need Quickclot is probably going to scar anyway.

Frankly, I don't think you can just pigeon hole medical treatment into "apply this or that." Assessment of the circumstances and patient is a critical part.

And I'm curious, what First Aid Class did you take?

[KevinB]

QuickClot and other hemostatic agents have come along way in the past 14 years. The thermal clotting methods have given way to non thermal clotting agents, so much less surrounding tissue is damaged, and the powders have been gone for some time, due to inhalation and eye exposure issues to both patient and first responder.

I carry both QC and TQ's - as sometimes you need to use both, or one is not practical.


I notice the OP mentions First Aid, as opposed to TEMS or TCCC. The majority of first aid courses, have zero relevance on a penetrating trauma wound that happens when a bullet enters the body -- I also carry chest seals and a needle kit, to deal with lung issues.

Don't expect a First Aid course will lend itself to dealing with combat trauma, as it won't. IF your looking for a TEMS/TCCC course take one from someone with significant experience in the field who stays current. Dark Angel or RedBackOne would be my recommendations for folks in the VA area.

[BillP]

Don't simply limit yourself to Quickclot either. Celox and Hemcon have excellent gauze based hemostatic products as well. Celox gauze had the best performance in the 2012 live tissue model testing at Lackland.

As to the other issues, good advice is posted above. Get training from someone who is current and most important someone who holds the appropriate certs to train you (reinforcing currency).

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[cclaxton]

And I'm curious, what First Aid Class did you take?

Baltimore County Fire and Medical Training CPR+AED+FirstAid+Gun Shot Wound and trauma class. Taught by Baltimore County Fire Dept Instructor with 28 years of experience. Really great class including simulated blood squirting out of injuries, pressure dressings, tourniquet applications, occlusive dressings, shock treatment, bloodborne disease prevention, etc.

The same guy will be holding another one at Fairfax Rod and Gun in the Winter. Let me know if you are interested.
CC

[cclaxton]

I notice the OP mentions First Aid, as opposed to TEMS or TCCC. The majority of first aid courses, have zero relevance on a penetrating trauma wound that happens when a bullet enters the body -- I also carry chest seals and a needle kit, to deal with lung issues. Don't expect a First Aid course will lend itself to dealing with combat trauma, as it won't. IF your looking for a TEMS/TCCC course take one from someone with significant experience in the field who stays current. Dark Angel or RedBackOne would be my recommendations for folks in the VA area.

He taught us occlusive dressings application and serious trauma dressings. He also taught general first aid, such as poisoning, snake bite, burns, broken bones, etc. The teacher doesn't have combat experience, but plenty of experience in Baltimore with gunshot victims, druggies, diabetics, strokes, and car accidents. His experience with these various treatment options added great value. Not to say TEMS/TCCC wouldn't be better...just saying it was an excellent basic start. He also had a lot of good advice on how much we should do to the patient and when to stop and wait for the EMT/Paramedics. Unless the person has a prescribed Epi-pen, nothing gets inserted into the patient. With more training we could handle more invasive first aid, such as airway devices, etc.

He also helped us to recognize that not everyone is going to survive and some people will die...maybe right in front of us.
CC

[cclaxton]

Don't simply limit yourself to Quickclot either. Celox and Hemcon have excellent gauze based hemostatic products as well. Celox gauze had the best performance in the 2012 live tissue model testing at Lackland.

As to the other issues, good advice is posted above. Get training from someone who is current and most important someone who holds the appropriate certs to train you (reinforcing currency).

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Thanks,
The trainer is a Baltimore County Firefighter/Paramedic and Baltimore County Fire and Medical is the company that trains all firefighters/EMT's and Paramedics for Baltimore County. Plus 28 years of experience as an EMT/Paramedic and more recently, teacher. Not sure how you get get more certified than that...unless you are talking combat certifications.

CC

[BillP]

TCCC and LE/FR TCC require specific instructor certs to deliver, from the certifying organization. Just as an example.

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[KevinB]

Thanks,
The trainer is a Baltimore County Firefighter/Paramedic and Baltimore County Fire and Medical is the company that trains all firefighters/EMT's and Paramedics for Baltimore County. Plus 28 years of experience as an EMT/Paramedic and more recently, teacher. Not sure how you get get more certified than that...unless you are talking combat certifications.

CC

All depends on your situations and requirements.

If your a LE Tac guy, certain methods of wounding are more prevalent and relevant. I'm not knocking on the guy, just Big City requirements due to transport time, are a lot different than rural areas where what you do in the golden hour are much more critical. I came into TCCC thru the military, and the department I am a reserve officer with is in the middle of nowheresville, so back to the self aid, buddy aid, medic aid Military methods.

Also IF you can save a dude with an emergency tracheotomy, why wouldn't you (and I'm so pissed I never got to use my kit for that ).
*no I don't carry that anymore, it's in my basement collecting dust -- but I often look at it with yearning...

But a simple needle decompression could save a dude that would otherwise not make it to the OR - and its not going to make it any worse...

[cclaxton]

All depends on your situations and requirements.

If your a LE Tac guy, certain methods of wounding are more prevalent and relevant. I'm not knocking on the guy, just Big City requirements due to transport time, are a lot different than rural areas where what you do in the golden hour are much more critical. I came into TCCC thru the military, and the department I am a reserve officer with is in the middle of nowheresville, so back to the self aid, buddy aid, medic aid Military methods.

Also IF you can save a dude with an emergency tracheotomy, why wouldn't you (and I'm so pissed I never got to use my kit for that ).
*no I don't carry that anymore, it's in my basement collecting dust -- but I often look at it with yearning...

But a simple needle decompression could save a dude that would otherwise not make it to the OR - and its not going to make it any worse...

This has inspired me to consider getting an EMT Certification. It's not that bad: Biology lecture, and 8 credit hours including clinical portions. Could all me done in one term, or two terms comfortably.

CC