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That begs the question, CAN you "safely" shoot an M92A1 without the factory aluminum sacrificial buffer? The question could be better posed as follows:Quote:
Originally Posted by WilsonCombatRep
"Is the factory aluminum buffer essential to the operational cycle of the M92A1?".
I know that you probably shouldnt answer that for liability reasons but i figured i would pose the question anyway.
Did the gun perform this way in stock form, before you changed the springs around?
Yes but i attributed the "issue" to my lack of familiarity with the system. I never just pick up a gun and get the sight tracking down immediately. It usually takes me between two and five thousand rounds to REALLY get the rhythm of the pistol. This however, is just...weird as the slide is reciprocating like nothing ive ever experienced.Quote:
Originally Posted by JTQ
Ive got 1860 rounds through the gun and i am fighting this more than ive ever fought my Glocks, M&P's, CZ's or 1911's. Id like to try and figure out a solution as i do like what the gun has to offer in regard to trigger, ergo's parts availability and general cool factor. I shoot for fun and competition so the pistol is simply a toy that i want to play with.
This is what I posted in my Centurion thread. Needs Elite/Vertec info to round out the picture.
Today, I had a full up practice session using my Wilson tuned 92A1. It has a fantastic trigger and has been a primary shooter for me. Yet to have a stoppage in over 10,000 rounds. Gorgeous pistol.
One drill my wife and I were doing is three eight inch steel from the draw at 13, 16 and 18 yards. Big wide transition between the 16 and 18 yard targets. My average time with the 92A1 was 2.75, with a 1.30 +/- draw and .70ish splits to the other two steel. My best time was 2.53. This was over about 20 runs.
I decided to grab my carry Beretta, which is a very stockish Centurion with a front sighted painted orange with a Sharpie paint stick, Crimson Trace military laser grips (which I couldn't see in bright desert sunlight), and a Dave Olhasso trigger job. The trigger is good, but no better than my Wilson trigger on the 92A1 which is superb. My first run with the Centurion was 2.25, my next run was 2.23, and over 10 runs my average was 2.25 with a best run of 2.08 (.99 draw to the 13 yard steel, .66 and .43 splits to the two other steel). Same ammo for both pistols, PMC 115 ball.
It seems conclusive to me that the Centurion length slide cycles better/faster than the full length Beretta 92 slide. At the end, I shot a quick three shot group on the head of an IPSC target at 25 yards, with what I had left in the magazine, and all three shots were in the upper A zone and could be covered by ONE paster. So it doesn't seem like the Centurion is giving up anything in practical accuracy.
A Vertec G Centurion with a M9A1 style lower would be my holy grail of a combo carry/game pistol.
Roger,
This would jive in accordance of my general love of G17's versus G34's.
I still think something else is afoot here so more testing on my end is required.
I've never noticed my 92A1's recoiling any differently compared to my other 92's, but I'm not having the issues you are having either. When the slide goes back in to battery for me, once it locks up, the sights are right where they were before the recoil started (assuming I didn't screw my grip up somehow).
Come to think of it, my 96A1 tracks just fine for me too, although I swear I can feel the bullet hit the feed ramp when it leaves the magazine, or something. I always figured it was just a Beretta .40 thing and didn't think too much of it.
Somebody told me that Stoeger used 9 lbs recoil spring in his Elites. According to weight measurements done by Bill Wilson, 92A1 slide is not far off the Brig slide, so mebbe 9 would work out. I presume that recommendation to pump the slide with Slide Glide stems from a need to facilitate cycling when using such low weight spring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magsz
That said, I think this isn't the only issue. It may shoot better with 9, but I don't think it should absolutely require 9. I vaguely remember a work order from David Olhasso on those 4 or 5 guns GJM had sent him. One of them had some issue with a slide bind, I think. George, am I making it up, or my memory is simply amazing?
One did, but it had to do with mounting the slide and not cycling once together.Quote:
Originally Posted by YVK
OK, here is some raw footage shooting two Bill drills end of my session with an Elite II. Don't have the software to slow mo it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WKta3fBDnI
Youtube will actually do that for you in the editor. If you dont have a high enough native resolution and frame rate it will look horrific though.
I am not a Beretta 92 shooter, but the same symptoms in a 9x19 1911 usually means the recoil spring rate is too high for the load. The muzzle dip is the extra closing force on the slide acting as a lever. IF this was a 9x19 1911, I would try a 9# spring to see if that reduces/alleviates the muzzle dip. One thing I have learned about 9x19 1911s that may be applicable is that each sample needs to be evaluated for the proper recoil spring for the load. I have several different 9x19 1911s and I run three different recoil springs in them for the same load. I wonder if the same phenomenon is at work with this pistol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magsz