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http://www.businessinsider.com/us-im...of-ammo-2012-3
Quote:
The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and its Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) office is getting an "indefinite delivery" of an "indefinite quantity" of .40 caliber bullets from defense contractor ATK.
U.S. agents will receive a maximum of 450 million rounds over five years, according to a press release on the deal.
And here i am feeling guilty about spending money on a case a month...Quote:
Originally Posted by JV
Anybody happen to know how many rounds per agent that divides out to? I wonder what the training consists of..
They're probably secretly spinning up the Civilian National Security Force...
It's less awe-inspiring when one stops to think about how many agencies are under the DHS umbrella these days: USSS, FAM, BP, ICE, USCG...Quote:
Originally Posted by CCT125US
If I were more cynical, I might think that there was some log-rolling going on here due to the draw-down of overseas forces in the GWOT and its potential adverse affect on a company that had spun up production massively in the mid-Aughties to keep up with demand. I mean, it wouldn't be the first bailout the feds have done in the last six years...
That... might be enough.
:)
This was posted on another forum. I have no familiarity with the subject matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by CCT125US
Quote:
Originally posted by caneau on sigforum.com:
Our educational system has failed us...this person can't do math, or read for that matter.
First, this is a multi-year contract, so it's not 450 million rounds at once.
Second, as mentioned, FLETC runs a whole bunch of courses for thousands of law enforcement personnel year-round.
This is just a guesstimate, but I'd say there are probably around 50,000 law enforcement personnel in DHS. Between all of the police officers, FPS, USBP, USCG, Secret Service, ICE, etc., my guess is that about 1 in 4 DHS employees are sworn law enforcement.
So let's take 450,000,000 and divide that by 50,000. This equals 9,000 rounds. Let's say this is a 5 year contract (which is pretty typical, often a 2 year contract for a base, with 3 option years), so that works out to 1,800 rounds per officer, per year. If you factor out FLETC, you're probably looking at somewhere in the vicinity of 1,000 rounds per officer, per year. So someone's getting upset about DHS purchasing for their officers per year about as many rounds as you go through in a decent 4 day shooting class? I order 1,800 rounds of ammo for my AR or pistols online without really batting an eye. Hell, I'd be happy that they're taking training that seriously and giving officers the opportunity to practice.
Finally, just because ICE purchased it doesn't mean it isn't a bulk order for multiple agencies. ICE tends to be a focal point for a lot of procurement or shared resources, for one reason or another. It's typically much easier to coordinate procurement for large orders on the back-end than have multiple solicitations our for the same product from different agencies and vendors. Rolling up a multi-agency order into one big one is actually a pretty smart government business practice.
@donovanm ... so what you are saying is that many of us here have already shot our allowance for the year........ within this month :)
Maybe that order or word of it had something to do with my local 9mm case price jumping from $179 to $249 in about a week.
I certainly hope so! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by CCT125US
I've shot 650 of that in 4 days this week, and this is just a "normal" week for me. I may hit 1,000 by Sunday. 1,000 a year is a sad life.Quote:
Originally Posted by CCT125US
1,000 per year / 250ish a quarter is spot on for CBP/USBP/ICE. While no much by P--f.com standards, there are local agencies shooting far less. CBP/USBP/ICE and Legacy INS have been the largest buyers of .40 caliber in the U.S. for years.Quote:
Originally Posted by GOP
Re: FLETC: An average FLETC basic student will fire betwen 1500 and 2500 rounds of pistol ammuntion depending on their program.
Hell, 2,500-3,000 a year is a sad life. Ask me how I know :(Quote:
Originally Posted by GOP
This was my take else where...
That is standard government contracting talk. They aren't buying that
many rounds, they have the option to buy that many rounds at that
given price up to the specified number. The maximum number is going
to be way higher than they every think they'll need to make sure they
don't lose the price.
Government contracting rules make it very difficult to do much of
anything. If you're going to get ammo approved, you don't want to
have to do it multiple times. If you want to start an interesting
rumor, tell 'em that the NPS ordered 15,000 rounds of .22 ammo for
just one park, which I just did. We must be bent on mass political
assassinations with silenced 22's because how could we possibly need
that much ammo - right? I don't need that many for this year's
training block but I don't want to fight the bureaucratic crap every
year to buy the particular load I want. When I order ammo, I try to
order into the future with the additional consideration that the
funding may not be there next year.
It is also common practice to allow other Federal agencies to buy off
of your contract. For instance, I can buy Federal Bonded Tactical
ammo off of the FBI contract even though I'm not an FBI agent. Once
the price is secured, it's good for everyone. Also, consider that DHS
runs FLETC. FLETC fires something like 20 million rounds a year as
part of its training programs. That isn't for the agencies, that's
just for training at FLETC. The various agencies included in DHS
aren't included in those numbers. When you have hundreds of LEO's
qualifying on a quartely basis, the numbers can add up.
Sorry, I've worked for the Feds for too long to believe that anybody
can orchestrate anything behind anybody's back. They can't even
orchestrate anything in the open...
If I had a stash of .40 S&W like that, I might just buy a Gen 4 G22. :D
Thats Funny.....can you say Project GunrunnerQuote:
Originally Posted by John Hearne