Florida 2024 Training Options?

Looking for some input from class attendees in order to schedule my 2024 training plan.

I am a .civ shooter. My training includes Tom Givens Rangemaster Combative Pistol (2017, again in 2020), Gabe White's Pistol Shooting Solutions (2018), and most recently Tim Herron's Practical Shooting (2022).

There are two classes I would like to consider for 2024. I realistically only have training budget for one course in 2024.

First is a $650 three-day handgun class North of Lakeland FL taught by Randy Cain in January. Randy is a name instructor with a solid reputation in handguns. What I like about this one is the potential for personal instruction in practical applications, and addressing some of my weaknesses in shooting. Class location at Southern Exposure training facility in Kathleen FL is an 80 miles drive, would need a hotel.

Second is $1,000 for a four day course MAG40, taught by Massad Ayoob Group in Live Oak FL in October. Live Oak is about an hour and a half away. Although more expensive, it is 4 days, and includes both classroom and live fire. Not 100% certain of class location. Same for hotel, would stay locally. @Mas

Of the two, I think MAG40 would probably expose me to more aspects of civilian self-defense shooting, and am leaning that way at the moment.

Any thoughts on either of these classes would be appreciated, or any other training options I'm missing, let me know.

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Originally Posted by RJ

Looking for some input from class attendees in order to schedule my 2024 training plan.

I am a .civ shooter. My training includes Tom Givens Rangemaster Combative Pistol (2017, again in 2020), Gabe White's Pistol Shooting Solutions (2018), and most recently Tim Herron's Practical Shooting (2022).

There are two classes I would like to consider for 2024. I realistically only have training budget for one course in 2024.

First is a $650 three-day handgun class North of Lakeland FL taught by Randy Cain in January. Randy is a name instructor with a solid reputation in handguns. What I like about this one is the potential for personal instruction in practical applications, and addressing some of my weaknesses in shooting. Class location at Southern Exposure training facility in Kathleen FL is an 80 miles drive, would need a hotel.

Second is $1,000 for a four day course MAG40, taught by Massad Ayoob Group in Live Oak FL in October. Live Oak is about an hour and a half away. Although more expensive, it is 4 days, and includes both classroom and live fire. Not 100% certain of class location. Same for hotel, would stay locally. @Mas

Of the two, I think MAG40 would probably expose me to more aspects of civilian self-defense shooting, and am leaning that way at the moment.

Any thoughts on either of these classes would be appreciated, or any other training options I'm missing, let me know.

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I can’t speak to the Randy Cain class, but I can’t say enough about MAG40, which I took in Delaware summer of 2019. Absolutely outstanding. It’s divided about equally between classroom and range, and honestly, I enjoyed the classroom portions a hair more. You basically get the distilled wit and wisdom of a legend, presented cogently and clearly in that luxurious rich baritone. And there is a lot of wit and wisdom on offer, the guy’s not only a genius but dryly hilarious as well. @Mas is pretty darned spry for someone eligible to collect full Social Security, but who knows when he’ll decide to hang it up. So if it were me, knowing what I know, I would splurge and go for MAG40 or you may regret it later.

MAG40 first. Randy second. Mas's classroom work is vital for CCW. He has the experience to teach the subject on the use of deadly force. That is the way I did it when I moved to Florida.

Thanks guys, appreciate the inputs. My wife pointed out I have some eye surgery coming up in February, so after I get clear of that, I'll figure this out.

The bad thing about Florida is that nobody likes to come down during the summer. I'm forever missing good classes because they're a month before or a month after I'm in the USA.

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Originally Posted by RJ

Looking for some input from class attendees in order to schedule my 2024 training plan.

I am a .civ shooter. My training includes Tom Givens Rangemaster Combative Pistol (2017, again in 2020), Gabe White's Pistol Shooting Solutions (2018), and most recently Tim Herron's Practical Shooting (2022).

There are two classes I would like to consider for 2024. I realistically only have training budget for one course in 2024.

First is a $650 three-day handgun class North of Lakeland FL taught by Randy Cain in January. Randy is a name instructor with a solid reputation in handguns. What I like about this one is the potential for personal instruction in practical applications, and addressing some of my weaknesses in shooting. Class location at Southern Exposure training facility in Kathleen FL is an 80 miles drive, would need a hotel.

Second is $1,000 for a four day course MAG40, taught by Massad Ayoob Group in Live Oak FL in October. Live Oak is about an hour and a half away. Although more expensive, it is 4 days, and includes both classroom and live fire. Not 100% certain of class location. Same for hotel, would stay locally. @Mas

Of the two, I think MAG40 would probably expose me to more aspects of civilian self-defense shooting, and am leaning that way at the moment.

Any thoughts on either of these classes would be appreciated, or any other training options I'm missing, let me know.

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I have taken both, and I know you.

If your goal this year is to learn about judicious use of deadly force, then take the Ayoob class.

If your goal is to further hone your pistol skills in more practical settings, you would be better off taking the Jedi pistol instructor class I'm hosting in February or the Reston/Paletta class I'm hosting in March.

If you haven't trained with Randy, you should.

He is about the only 1st-degree-of-Cooper instructor still active that I know of. Some are retired, many have passed on.

I don't think Randy is going to croak anytime soon but he is probably close to retiring.

He's not going to give you straight Cooper like some moonie, he has developed his own methods and opinions, but if you are a student of the history of modern pistol instruction you can find the threads.

Two things I've said about Randy in the past that I believe still hold true:
1) in a life of lower, higher, and secondary education plus all manner of hobbies and professional coursework, Randy is the best TEACHER I have ever met.
2) I learned more (relevant lessons) about “gunfighting” from a Jazz musician than I ever did from a tier one badass.

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Originally Posted by rob_s

If you haven't trained with Randy, you should.

He is about the only 1st-degree-of-Cooper instructor still active that I know of. Some are retired, many have passed on.

I don't think Randy is going to croak anytime soon but he is probably close to retiring.

He's not going to give you straight Cooper like some moonie, he has developed his own methods and opinions, but if you are a student of the history of modern pistol instruction you can find the threads.

Two things I've said about Randy in the past that I believe still hold true:
1) in a life of lower, higher, and secondary education plus all manner of hobbies and professional coursework, Randy is the best TEACHER I have ever met.
2) I learned more (relevant lessons) about “gunfighting” from a Jazz musician than I ever did from a tier one badass.

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Thanks, I’ve heard that from multiple sources.

I’m pumping the brakes on scheduling training till I get past my eye surgery next month, but I like this option (and they are all good options).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rob_s

If you haven't trained with Randy, you should.

He is about the only 1st-degree-of-Cooper instructor still active that I know of. Some are retired, many have passed on.

I don't think Randy is going to croak anytime soon but he is probably close to retiring.

He's not going to give you straight Cooper like some moonie, he has developed his own methods and opinions, but if you are a student of the history of modern pistol instruction you can find the threads.

Two things I've said about Randy in the past that I believe still hold true:
1) in a life of lower, higher, and secondary education plus all manner of hobbies and professional coursework, Randy is the best TEACHER I have ever met.
2) I learned more (relevant lessons) about “gunfighting” from a Jazz musician than I ever did from a tier one badass.

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100% agree with all of the above. I've taken 13 of Randy's classes dating back to 2012, and he's one of my two favorite instructors. His 101 is a great grounding in the fundamentals and his ability to diagnose and articulate common shooting errors is second to none. Generally speaking, his classes are a little slower paced than some other nationally known instructors, but that's a good thing—while he communicates a ton of info, you'll have time to digest it, write it down, and ask clarifying questions.

No experience with Mas, though he is on my wishlist for training.

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Originally Posted by RJ

I am a .civ shooter. My training includes Tom Givens Rangemaster Combative Pistol (2017, again in 2020), Gabe White's Pistol Shooting Solutions (2018), and most recently Tim Herron's Practical Shooting (2022).

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On the one hand, if you're a training class junkie for its own sake, rock on with your bad ol' self. I get it, until last year, I was that guy. I attended at least two or three classes per year over the last 6 years.

On the other hand, with those three classes under your belt, what more do you need? Between those three classes you've gotten world class education on Mindset, Marksmanship and Gun Handling. You Are Trained. I suspect you haven't reached the performance limit of what you learned from those classes, so I bet every one of those guys would tell you it's time to stop going to shooting classes and get to work on the stuff they taught you. FWIW, that's what I'm doing.


:eek:

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Originally Posted by Bluemonday

I have taken both, and I know you.

If your goal this year is to learn about judicious use of deadly force, then take the Ayoob class.

If your goal is to further hone your pistol skills in more practical settings, you would be better off taking the Jedi pistol instructor class I'm hosting in February or the Reston/Paletta class I'm hosting in March.

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Where in FL are you hosting these instructors?

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Originally Posted by Andy T

Where in FL are you hosting these instructors?

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Homestead Training Center.

Hosting 3 different instructors in February and March.

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Originally Posted by RJ

Looking for some input from class attendees in order to schedule my 2024 training plan.
Snip

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I will be in Florida in November for two days of pistol:

https://oftllc.us/event/two-day-comprehensive-pistol-8/

Any updates on this? A buddy in Orlando just reached out requesting defensive handgun and rifle (presumably AR-15). Looking for a 101 course ala Combative Pistol, etc.

Randy Cain and Onsight don't have anything until later in the year. Anything in driving distance in the next couple months before it gets too hot.

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Originally Posted by David S.

Any updates on this? A buddy in Orlando just reached out requesting defensive handgun and rifle (presumably AR-15). Looking for a 101 course ala Combative Pistol, etc.

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Not from me...I'm not making any plans till I get past my cataract surgery, now scheduled for early April.

I would probably lean towards either Randy Cain's course or Mas's offering, but to be honest, I'm also considering just doing local competition options near me, assuming I can get back to shooting in May/June. There is not a lot within an hour of Ocala, but looking on Practiscore, a new USPSA Level 1 match was announced in Leesburg (maybe 45"), and I discovered that a local gun range in Marion county has an indoor pin shoot the first and third Wednesday of the month that I may check out as well.