Managing Rapid Small Angle Transitions (iron sights)

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Originally Posted by Clusterfrack

This is a super interesting point. When the head moves and the triangle follows, the relationship between dominant eye, and the sights needs to be reestablished. Even with a well-developed index, that relationship is robust but takes time to reestablish and confirm.

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What I’m doing in this case is keeping the head position anchored to the sights while I turn with knees… even if the eye darts, I can still smoothly track the gun / irons in and across the target.

It’s like when we talked about picking up the dot on an optic on approach to the target. It’s like that.

The simpler the tracking, the more predictive the shooting and the less correction required.

I realized this when I was shooting PCC-irons… the head has to stay anchored in line via the cheek weld. Even if the eyes dart to next target.

That’s essentially what you’re trying to recreate with iron pistol for steel challenge IMO… a virtual cheek weld to the irons that keeps the head position constant in relation to the sights.


@rdtompki

@rdtompki

This is what it looks like.

Make sure you try and get low and wide as ortho limitations allow.

https://youtu.be/HDAY8-DHwBA

I don't have any ortho limitations other than never having been a fast twitch guy. I'm guilty of moving my head instead of rotating my eyeballs and on these short transitions likely not keeping hips and the shoulders/arms/grip framework in sync. Although not directly the subject of this post I'd bet I'm guilty of the same thing when reversing direction. I've got enough runway left to fix this.

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Originally Posted by rdtompki

I don't have any ortho limitations other than never having been a fast twitch guy. I'm guilty of moving my head instead of rotating my eyeballs and on these short transitions likely not keeping hips and the shoulders/arms/grip framework in sync. Although not directly the subject of this post I'd bet I'm guilty of the same thing when reversing direction. I've got enough runway left to fix this.

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Steel challenge to me doesn’t seem to be fast twitch intensive. It’s more about great mechanics that allow you to roll through progressively and smoothly. It’s kind of anti-fast twitch.

Transitions are difficult to drill effectively because your body rapidly adjusts to what you're asking of it.

What helped me was hammering in 12 wooden stakes in a 10 yard marked out circle like compass points then hammering in stakes every 6 inches between a few of them.

You can stand in the center of the circle, at either edge, closer, farther, and it keeps you fresh on performing each transition cleanly without becoming accustomed to the direction and distance. Dry fire of course. Decent core workout after awhile too.

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Originally Posted by MickAK

Transitions are difficult to drill effectively because your body rapidly adjusts to what you're asking of it.

What helped me was hammering in 12 wooden stakes in a 10 yard marked out circle like compass points then hammering in stakes every 6 inches between a few of them.

You can stand in the center of the circle, at either edge, closer, farther, and it keeps you fresh on performing each transition cleanly without becoming accustomed to the direction and distance. Dry fire of course. Decent core workout after awhile too.

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Excellent point. I've experienced that when I've set up just two targets. Doesn't matter the flaws in my technique I adapt to same during repetition. My wife and I practice twice a week; I can emulate your approach by working transitions drive fire on any of the 20 transitions available in the 5 target array ignoring how the stage would actually be shot. Do this dry fire and finish off by 5 strings of live fire.

FWIW, and I think it's worth plenty, one couldn't find another forum with such thoughtful responses to the original post. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by MickAK

Transitions are difficult to drill effectively because your body rapidly adjusts to what you're asking of it.

What helped me was hammering in 12 wooden stakes in a 10 yard marked out circle like compass points then hammering in stakes every 6 inches between a few of them.

You can stand in the center of the circle, at either edge, closer, farther, and it keeps you fresh on performing each transition cleanly without becoming accustomed to the direction and distance. Dry fire of course. Decent core workout after awhile too.

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Great idea!

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Originally Posted by rdtompki

Excellent point. I've experienced that when I've set up just two targets. Doesn't matter the flaws in my technique I adapt to same during repetition. My wife and I practice twice a week; I can emulate your approach by working transitions drive fire on any of the 20 transitions available in the 5 target array ignoring how the stage would actually be shot. Do this dry fire and finish off by 5 strings of live fire.

FWIW, and I think it's worth plenty, one couldn't find another forum with such thoughtful responses to the original post. Thanks.

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The two comments I would make is make sure you do it on a timer with a restrictive par to shake out inefficiencies.

And set up at least three targets, even if it’s a memorization array it’s still okay to shake out inefficiencies.

Second target on Showdown is a transition target so make sure you’re going past that target and not ending on the second target in practice.

Something like this:
https://youtu.be/WOPbVq6RuYQ

I've taking a bit of a temporary detour since the original post shooting my RDS (507 ACSS) Kimber "Commander" in lieu of the iron sight 9mm 1911. It's proving to be quite the learning experience

1. My iron sight draw is pretty solid in terms of index, but I know realize that the subconscious acquisition of the front sight as the gun is coming up has a good deal to do with sight alignment. Initially, my RDS draw was a disaster, everything coming up "left" @JCN your mention of a flatter press-out struct me during a recent match in that I had used that approach for 2-3 years primarily based on better retention. I switched during the match and my draw index with the RDS improved instantly. Proved it out during practice today with essentially no effect on draw speed.
2. The RDS really forces me to trust my mechanics and get my eyes on the target. Nothing new, said my many
3. Pros and Cons to the ACSS reticle. While it indicates where to find the dot it is also extremely distracting when part of the circle appears and yet the dot is still in the field. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on a 507COMP. I think with a good deal of practice the the ACSS could be helpful, but a small circle as on my 509 would have most of the benefit without the downsides IMO.
4. I forgot to put on my shooting glasses, leaving my regular Rudy Project eye wear in place. Turns out I don't need my prescription to shoot and RDS. Who knew?
5. Had a run of bad brass during practice (PPU, SVT(?) and GFL(?)). Got tired of knocking them out of the Kimber barrel so switched to the full-size with irons. The benefit of even two weeks with the RDS was apparent; the RDS had me really focused on a good left-hand grip and I was able to get good hits with irons despite not having changed eye wear. I'll place some credit for the grip improvement on the level press-out; just feels more natural to crank in a good left-hand in that condition,

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Originally Posted by rdtompki

Initially, my RDS draw was a disaster, everything coming up "left" @JCN your mention of a flatter press-out struct me during a recent match in that I had used that approach for 2-3 years primarily based on better retention.

I switched during the match and my draw index with the RDS improved instantly. Proved it out during practice today with essentially no effect on draw speed.

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NICE! Glad to have helped. A good RDS flat press out works for irons as well and has a lot of muzzle stability benefit over the casting fisherman draws.

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Originally Posted by rdtompki

[*]Pros and Cons to the ACSS reticle. While it indicates where to find the dot it is also extremely distracting when part of the circle appears and yet the dot is still in the field.

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Totally agree with the huge outer ACSS reticle giving false information.

Did you know that you can turn it off? :D

If you hold down the button to cycle through reticles you can toggle the huge outer circle to off.

I did this almost immediately for my ACSS.



Super happy to have helped.