SIG 228 goes “click,” not “bang.”

I have a late 90’s P228 that I recently tinkered with to try and improve the ergonomics a little for my hand. I put in a factory short trigger (not the short reset), E2 grips and an Amory Craft sear spring along with a 19# hammer spring which is marketed as giving an improved pull “with 100% ignition reliability.”

As the post title suggests, I took it out yesterday and got clicks instead of bangs. Everything seems to function properly, hammer falls to the decock position when using the lever and rebounds when pulling the trigger etc. In my frustration, I neglected to inspect the couple rounds I attempted to fire to see if the had any indents on the primers, shame on me. When I brought it home and disassembled, I realized that I neglected to swap the trigger bar spring to the coiled one for the E2 grips from the bow shaped one that was on the gun, but even so, the trigger was functioning and the hammer was falling normally. So, for you SIG experts out there, is this just a case of not enough spring weight? Did the trigger bar spring have something to do with it? Can the new sear spring affect ignition? Is there something else I should look at? I’ve already swapped the oem hammer spring back in, and honestly the pull feels pretty much the same, but can’t get back to the range immediately to test it. What say you Sig gurus?

Attachment 113913Attachment 113914

It's been a long time since I took down a Sig DA/SA, off the top of my head, I wonder if you have the hammer strut seated onto the hammer correctly.

Some questions and thoughts in no particular order…

Was the gun vetted and reliable with the same ammunition before said tinkering? What ammunition? What primers?

Are the FTFs only happening in DA? Or in single action also?

The older Sig “OEM” hammer strut and spring was a captive long version with a metal seat. Yours isn’t OEM technically. Someone, at some point changed it out.

There are two different style plastic mainspring seats/struts; one for normal grips and one for the E2 system. One is longer than the other and could be causing light strikes if mismatched.

I’ve run 18 lb mainsprings in match guns pretty reliably with Federal and Winchester primers. With harder primers, less so. 19s are typically GTG but they CAN still cause light strikes also, with harder primers. I’d probably use a factory recommended weight for a duty or defensive pistol.

Riding the decking lever on the classic series pistols can cause light strikes also.

If you’ve dry fired extensively with the gun without a snap cap (or other “hammer cushion”), another possible cause could be damage to the FPPP. If the pin is damaged, (they break/dent/deform pretty easily) it can impinge the firing pin and cause ignition issues also. This is true with the old two piece versions (stock on this pistol), the solid pin version AND the newest coil spring version.

The E2 grips can interfere with the the trigger bar spring if installed incorrectly. But it sounds like you checked for function it that regard. The coiled version is much more robust than the original version.



T

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DDTSGM

It's been a long time since I took down a Sig DA/SA, off the top of my head, I wonder if you have the hammer strut seated onto the hammer correctly.

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I did have a little struggle the first time I tried to reseat the hammer strut, as it is possible to get the gun together with the strut in front of the correct hammer notch, but in this position the hammer won’t fall in da or sa, and the decocker feels weak because there’s not enough tension on the spring. So, I’m confident it’s in the right position. I was thinking maybe the firing pin spring is bad, but I just put a bit of sight paint on a snap cap and it clearly shows a firing pin strike. I’ve read people going all the way to 16-17# hammer springs, but maybe this particular gun needs the OEM strength spring???
Attachment 113920

Quote:

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Originally Posted by taadski

Some questions and thoughts in no particular order…

Was the gun vetted and reliable with the same ammunition before said tinkering? What ammunition? What primers?

Are the FTFs only happening in DA? Or in single action also?

The older Sig “OEM” hammer strut and spring was a captive long version with a metal seat. Yours isn’t OEM technically. Someone, at some point changed it out.

There are two different style plastic mainspring seats/struts; one for normal grips and one for the E2 system. One is longer than the other and could be causing light strikes if mismatched.

I’ve run 18 lb mainsprings in match guns pretty reliably with Federal and Winchester primers. With harder primers, less so. 19s are typically GTG but they CAN still cause light strikes also, with harder primers. I’d probably use a factory recommended weight for a duty or defensive pistol.

Riding the decking lever on the classic series pistols can cause light strikes also.

If you’ve dry fired extensively with the gun without a snap cap (or other “hammer cushion”), another possible cause could be damage to the FPPP. If the pin is damaged, (they break/dent/deform pretty easily) it can impinge the firing pin and cause ignition issues also. This is true with the old two piece versions (stock on this pistol), the solid pin version AND the newest coil spring version.

The E2 grips can interfere with the the trigger bar spring if installed incorrectly. But it sounds like you checked for function it that regard. The coiled version is much more robust than the original version.



T

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This gun I inherited from my father. He bought it new to replace his duty weapon when he retired, and he was definitely not the type who tinkered with his guns at all. I’d wager a testicle that the way it was when I pulled it out of the safe is how he bought it. Based on some google-fu, I expected to find the pinned hammer strut and long spring, but what I found was the short strut with the long plastic housing. I read that this setup didn’t go into p series guns until 99, but proof marks on this gun make it a 97, confusing.

I can’t say 100%, but I don’t recall him ever mentioning any malfunctions with this pistol, but admittedly it wasn’t shot much the last several years as he got sick. I’ve had it for a bit now, but never really liked having to roll the gun around to manipulate the controls, which prompted the changes. I should’ve shot it before I started working on it, but didn’t. I did dry fire it a bit after I put the grips on, but nothing excessive. See my post above about the firing pin and let m know if I should still pull it apart and take a look.
Original grips, strut and housing:
Attachment 113922
And proof marks:
Attachment 113923
ETA: clicks came in da after loading and decocking. Maybe gave it like 5-6 attempts from a couple magazines. Ammo was blazer 115 and federal champion 115.

I went ahead and broke down the slide. The firing pin looks good, I could see a faint ring of the green paint from the snap cap below the tip of the pin. From the crud built up around the extractor, the residue all over and the force it took to get the pin out, it’s never been out of the slide. I’m hoping it was just the hammer spring, cause nothing else jumps out as a culprit. I cleaned everything well and will put it back together after it dries thoroughly.
Attachment 113931
Attachment 113932

I'm be leaning toward the mainspring system too. I'd put the stock weight one back in with the correct seat and strut and confirm function. It it ignites 100% then you can dabble with a lighter spring. I was able to run 19s in a duty pistol with factory practice and duty ammo for a lot of years sans issue.

If you're looking at improving the double action, putting the old captive style strut and seat back in is an option. They tend to be a bit more smooth and linear than the plastic seat system (which tends to have a skosh more progressive a ramp to it IME). On the other hand, as you've discovered, the plastic seat system is a lot easier to mess with and is a tinkerer's dream comparatively.

As another note, the breech block pin (aka the firing pin positioning pin) shouldn't be reused according to factory armorer procedures. I've done it. I'll probably continue to in some circumstances, but Sig recommends putting a new one in after they've been removed. Just FYI.


T

Quote:

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Originally Posted by taadski

I'm be leaning toward the mainspring system too. I'd put the stock weight one back in with the correct seat and strut and confirm function. It it ignites 100% then you can dabble with a lighter spring. I was able to run 19s in a duty pistol with factory practice and duty ammo for a lot of years sans issue.

If you're looking at improving the double action, putting the old captive style strut and seat back in is an option. They tend to be a bit more smooth and linear than the plastic seat system (which tends to have a skosh more progressive a ramp to it IME). On the other hand, as you've discovered, the plastic seat system is a lot easier to mess with and is a tinkerer's dream comparatively.

As another note, the breech block pin (aka the firing pin positioning pin) shouldn't be reused according to factory armorer procedures. I've done it. I'll probably continue to in some circumstances, but Sig recommends putting a new one in after they've been removed. Just FYI.


T

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Unfortunately, I need the E2 grips to be able to run the decocker without breaking my grip, so I’m stuck with the plastic strut system. This is just a fun gun for me, so if it needs the full power spring it’s no big deal, I was just trying to make it a little mo’ better. Thanks for the heads up about the pin, I’m collecting a bunch of spare parts, so I’ll get a couple. Is this still the case with the two piece slide like I have? I didn’t drift the pin all the way through the frame since the firing pin assembly came out, so I’ll drive it back in and give it a shot until I can get a new one. Thanks for the input.

Yes. Arguably it's more of an issue with the older breech block guns. Also, if, while you're tapping the pin back in, you are met with any resistance, realize the firing pin notch may be partially obstructing the pin going through. Pushing the pin forward (from the rear of the slide) as you tap the FPPP will get it through the firing pin notch without doing any damage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by taadski

Yes. Arguably it's more of an issue with the older breech block guns. Also, if, while you're tapping the pin back in, you are met with any resistance, realize the firing pin notch may be partially obstructing the pin going through. Pushing the pin forward (from the rear of the slide) as you tap the FPPP will get it through the firing pin notch without doing any damage.

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Thank you