This seems like a great source for pro-gun arguments, but...

Can anyone debunk or take issue with these stats?

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/murd...nd-state#MRord

Yeah.... Murder does not by itself reflect the state of violent crime. Ask the UK.

Cross-sectional comparison data is pretty much worthless. There are too many uncontrolled variables to get any type of confidence in a causal connection. The only way to get good data on the effect of the death penalty on murder rate is to do a difference in differences calculation. You would need to look at two otherwise similarly situated states in a period where one eliminated the death penalty and the other kept the death penalty and neither state changed a variable that could affect murder rate.

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Originally Posted by joshs

Cross-sectional comparison data is pretty much worthless. There are too many uncontrolled variables to get any type of confidence in a causal connection. The only way to get good data on the effect of the death penalty on murder rate is to do a difference in differences calculation. You would need to look at two otherwise similarly situated states in a period where one eliminated the death penalty and the other kept the death penalty and neither state changed a variable that could affect murder rate.

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joshs,
Now that you're looking at this, I was less interested in the DP and more interested in the fact that I live in NJ and places that have less restrictions on 2A and have no DP statute have a lower murder rate per 100k. Like AK, ND, ME, MN, VT, IA, RI. I know there are more variables that make it more complicated and I also know that this data can be argued, which is why I asked for some refutation before I lay it at the feet of some antis I know.

Here's some info for general use, don't know how well it ties into the DP theme, though.

http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2012/0...ted-again.html

http://pjmedia.com/blog/gun-control-...inglepage=true

Looks like pretty normal findings regarding DP (and incarceration in general). Locking people up and/or executing them doesn't seem to do much to reduce crime. We've known that for a long time.

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Originally Posted by BaiHu

joshs,
Now that you're looking at this, I was less interested in the DP and more interested in the fact that I live in NJ and places that have less restrictions on 2A and have no DP statute have a lower murder rate per 100k. Like AK, ND, ME, MN, VT, IA, RI. I know there are more variables that make it more complicated and I also know that this data can be argued, which is why I asked for some refutation before I lay it at the feet of some antis I know.

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Everybody uses cross-sectional comparisons for sound bites, but it really isn't all that meaningful. For example, comparing the states you listed to New Jersey isn't all that persuasive because there are so many other variables correlated with murder rate.

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Originally Posted by joshs

Everybody uses cross-sectional comparisons for sound bites, but it really isn't all that meaningful. For example, comparing the states you listed to New Jersey isn't all that persuasive because there are so many other variables correlated with murder rate.

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Thanks!