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Hello everyone,
I am a new member and this is my first post. I have been reading the discussions for some time and finally decided to join up so I could post.
I have never heard a definitive explanation why the Federal HST 147 sp is on "the list" yet the 147+P which performs better in the test results posted on this forum, is not. Is there something I am missing ?
Thanks in advance.
I'm interested in this as well- I'm about to order some 147+P
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Just a guess, but perhaps it's because the standard pressure 147gr performs well enough on its own that there's little justification for the extra recoil of the +P variant.
The more you push the round the more it expands and penetrates less, the standard rounds will expand usually less than a +p round and perform better all around, but that's not always the case... Either one will work very well IMO...
That'd be my guess as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by lyodbraun
9mm 147 gr HST (P9HST2) at 1014 f/s:
BG: Pen = 12.2", Ave RD = 0.63", Ave RL = 0.39", Ave RW = 147.5 gr
4LD: Pen = 15.4", Ave RD = 0.53", Ave RL = 0.50", Ave RW = 147.2 gr
AG: Pen = 13.0", Ave RD = 0.50", Ave RL = 0.59", Ave RW = 143.6 gr
9 mm 147 gr +P HST (P9HST4) at 1069 fps:
BG: Pen = 14.4, RD = 0.64, RL = 0.41, RW = 147.5
4LD: Pen = 16.3, RD = 0.59, RL = 0.43, RW = 147.8
No autoglass test for the +P, but as you can see you get a little more penetration ability from the +P along with slightly better expansion.
Federal's website only shows 11.00" in auto glass and 12.00" in heavy clothing IWBA.
Also the 45 hst +p only went 10.50" in auto glass and 14.50" in IWBA heavy clothing. What numbers do we go with?
One thing to consider with HSTs is that they use crappy powder. That's generally why they are cheaper than Win Bonded or Speer GDs. They are "fairly" consistent in velocity(not as good as others), but very flashy. Shoot even standard pressure HSTs and they have quite a big muzzle flash.....+Ps are even worse to the point of loosing sight of the target at night. Probably why you don't see HSTs on very many Federal LEO contracts.
They actually hold a ton of federal LEO contracts. The ones that come to mind are CBP/Border Patrol, US Coast Guard, ICE and the overall DHS contract. If I had to guess, that is actually most common federal duty ammunition. I can't speak to the powder and don't own a chrono, but I've shot the 147gr and 124+P versions in low light and didn't find it to be very bright, about on par with Ranger T. Remington Golden Saber made a virtual fireball... Those were the two brands I compared it to when I was picking carry ammo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Symmetry
With regards to the original question, I recall reading that Doc said they performed about the same, so why bother with +P when the standard pressure works just as well. The list only shows the best performing rounds from each brand that make the list, not any round that meets the criteria. In today's ammo purchasing environment, a comprehensive list that shows all the ammo that's been tested and meets the requirements, not just the best load from each would be something I would love to see.
HST have been very low flash in our use, just like the Gold Dot's--both of which use similar high quality propellants. Golden Saber is generally the worst flash we have seen from major manufacturers.
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9 mm 147 gr +P HST (P9HST4) at 1069 fps:
BG: Pen = 14.4, RD = 0.64, RL = 0.41, RW = 147.5
4LD: Pen = 16.3, RD = 0.59, RL = 0.43, RW = 147.8
9 mm Fed 147 gr HST (P9HST2) at 1005 fps:
BG: Pen = 14.0, RD = 0.65, RL = 0.41, RW = 147.6
4LD: Pen = 16.5, RD = 0.60, RL = 0.53, RW = 147.5
http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps73440262.jpg
147 +P to left of dime/standard pressure to right of dime
There is NO advantage to 147 +P HST.